Jeopardy All-Star Games

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opusthepenguin
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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by opusthepenguin » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:08 pm

seaborgium wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:32 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:03 pm
And including three contestants from one TOC seems a bit much.
Well, doing so twice certainly would be.
There you go. It's like the No Homers club.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by Anachronism » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:04 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:03 pm
I don't know whether the Arthur Chu omission is a snub or not. They're already including Ben Ingram, the winner in Chu's TOC. And they're including Julia Collins who came in third in his TOC but won more regular season games than Chu--almost twice as many--and who is the winningest woman of all time on Jeopardy! It's hard to argue that Arthur should've been included over either of those. And including three contestants from one TOC seems a bit much. TPTB may indeed have had non-game-related reasons to pass over a politically outspoken individual, but I think the in-game reasons are sound enough.

The omission that hurts more, to me anyway, is Stephanie Jass. I know there were reasons there as well. I wish there weren't. I would have loved to see the fun and the game she would've brought. (Note: If you have any sour thoughts about this, please keep them to yourself. I'm just saying I like Stephanie, I wish she could have been a part of this, and I feel badly for her because I know she would have loved to be there.)

Like others, I do not know who to root for in this thing. So I'm rooting against Brad Rutter. He needs to lose. It's past time. He should have lost to Leslie Frates sixteen years ago. She had the game sewn up. She got FJ right.... And she wagered cautiously, giving Brad the game. Brad's a great player. He's one of the best. But I'm tired of the mythology that he's the GOAT.
I have to keep in mind that I am not the intended audience for this tournament. I get sick of seeing the same faces. I don't know any of them personally, and some of you do. If I had a friend who had reached this level, I'd be all-in.

I certainly enjoyed Stephanie's run, for geographic reasons and because my wife is in a similar career at a similar stage. But her story illustrates that what we see on television may be completely unrelated to what's going on in their lives (and that's not a judgment about her). Maybe I'm just tired of celebrity in general. You can't watch anything these days without being preached at about political ideology. Not that any of them do while on the show, but once you know someone's politics these days, yuck. Seemingly everybody has to take sides these days. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it used to be like this.

Football used to be an escape for me, but I guess it was naive of me to think it would remain a refuge from the giant suck that everything on television has turned into. Except Jeopardy. My DVR sits otherwise empty these days. Anyway, that's why I'm actually afraid to watch this thing. I love the trivia. When people become charactatures (and, I'm sorry, but Austin and Buzzy and some others - it just doesn't seem genuine to me), I start worrying that it's going to turn into yet another Red versus Blue marathon of suck.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by chmmr » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:20 pm

Getting Larissa Kelly 6th pick was a steal. It'll be interesting to see how Roger Craig's "upside" manifests itself :D

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by NoWhammies10 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:46 pm

Doing some preliminary analysis, I've awarded each team points based on each player's overall standings in previous tournaments in which they've played, as follows:
  • 5 points for a win
  • 4 points for 2nd place
  • 3 points for 3rd place
  • 2 points for reaching the Semi-Finals
  • 1 point for going out in the Quarter Finals
For the purposes of this scoring, I'm not counting the IBM Challenge as a tournament. Having said that, here are your scores for each team:
  • Team Colby: 29 (8 appearances)
  • Team Buzzy: 16 (4 appearances)
  • Team Julia: 9 (3 appearances)
  • Team Ken: 18 (5 appearances)
  • Team Austin: 16 (4 appearances)
  • Team Brad: 26 (6 appearances)
It is Team Colby whose team has the most overall experience, with Team Brad in a close second. Owing to Brad's success in tournaments, he accounts for 20 of his team's 26 points.

Other cursory facts reading through the stats:
  • Though captains Julia, Ken, and Austin have never won a tournament, every team ended up with at least one tournament winner (Ben Ingram, Monica Thieu, and Leonard Cooper, respectively).
  • Only four Five of the draftees have not won a tournament going into the ASG: Alan Lin, Seth Wilson, Matt Jackson, Larissa Kelly, and David Madden. (Thanks for pointing that out, cf1140)
  • Team Buzzy is made up entirely of people who have won at least one tournament.
Last edited by NoWhammies10 on Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by chmmr » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:51 pm

Some more things I noticed on a second watch.
Alex throwing shade at Matt for having stats :p It is really sweet how he always credits his wife. Will be really interesting to see how he plays against some of the all time greats.
It might be my imagination, but it looked like Larissa had a mean glint in her eye.
I guess Ken plays Double Jeopardy and Matt plays Final. Matt was kind of bad at Single Jeopardy if memory serves.
It'll be interesting to see if Roger still has his insane buzzer speed.
Kind of sad that we won't see all the players play Double Jeopardy, but maybe we will? Imo the points system points to this.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by chmmr » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:53 pm

NoWhammies10 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:46 pm
[*]Only four of the draftees have not won a tournament going into the ASG: Alan Lin, Seth Wilson, Matt Jackson, and Larissa Kelly.
Has Ken won a tournament?

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by teapot37 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:57 pm

chmmr wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:53 pm
NoWhammies10 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:46 pm
[*]Only four of the draftees have not won a tournament going into the ASG: Alan Lin, Seth Wilson, Matt Jackson, and Larissa Kelly.
Has Ken won a tournament?
No, but Ken was also not a draftee.
Not many people can say they've lost four times on Jeopardy!.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by NoWhammies10 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:01 pm

chmmr wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:51 pm
I guess Ken plays Double Jeopardy and Matt plays Final. Matt was kind of bad at Single Jeopardy if memory serves.
Matt's average SJ! score is $7,533 among all his appearances; Ken's $9,553; Monica's an even $3,000.
chmmr wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:53 pm
Has Ken won a tournament?
Ken has not won a tournament, having only appeared in two: the UToC and the Battle of the Decades. There were no traditional ToCs while Ken was still playing regular games, the UToC took their place when Ken would have been eligible in 2005.

My earlier comment refers only to draftees; among captains, Ken, Julia, and Austin have never won any tournaments.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by cf1140 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:45 pm

dave madden has never won a tournament

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by jpr281 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:04 am

finishemzoe wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:35 am
I'm with the several like minds on here and Reddit that this is certainly a confusing format. 6 teams, 10 games? I've been trying to make sense of it ever since I first heard about the tournament and I just can't.
I'm guessing the first 8 games will be to decide which 3 teams play in a 2-game final.

First 8 games: each team plays round-robin style and has 4 games. Now, how they decide who the 3 teams in the final can go many ways: total amount won in the 4 games, total amount won in 3 best games (leaving out the lowest score which might entice larger FJ! wagers if you know that if you finish with $0 it won't hurt you as bad if you don't do it again), highest single amount won in a game, etc. It can go many ways.

It's not so confusing as it is the format hasn't been laid out yet.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by brick » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:29 am

MarkBarrett wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:35 am
seaborgium wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:02 am
LucarioSnooperVixey wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:17 pm
Don't Think Twice wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:28 pm
I wonder if Arthur Chu turned it down? I would feel bad if they didn't offer it to him. I know he wasn't popular and I certainly wasn't a fan at the time of his run, but since I've watched the documentary about him I've become more sympathetic. :cry:
The fact that they have Leonard Cooper and Jennifer Giles in the tournament kind of indicates that Arthur Chu DID turn it down in my opinion.
How would his turning it down open up two spaces?
The powers have invited a representative from the Teachers, Teen, and College tournaments and that was probably one of the goals with it having nothing to do with Mr. Chu. I took as quick a spin as I could take on Arthur's Twitter feed and other than a retweet of a KJ tweet did not see anything in the J! area.

As for Who is Arthur Chu? It's worth seeing for the insight even though it's far from a perfect piece of art and certainly not a mood lifter.

My instinct would be Arthur was not invited (the powers would be troubled by a certain 3-word tweet) and since he is a board member perhaps he will confirm or deny if he was contacted prior to the announcement.

If the All Stars have an alternate(s) my list would have:

Dan Pawson (nothing against Larissa [glad she is included], but he did win the TOC against her as well as he did win his BotD game.)
Joon Pahk
Andrew Pau

The BotD may have ended the J! careers of Vijay Balse, Tom Nissley, and Keith Whitener.
What is Chu’s infamous three word tweet?

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:53 am

brick wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:29 am
MarkBarrett wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:35 am
seaborgium wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:02 am
LucarioSnooperVixey wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:17 pm
Don't Think Twice wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:28 pm
I wonder if Arthur Chu turned it down? I would feel bad if they didn't offer it to him. I know he wasn't popular and I certainly wasn't a fan at the time of his run, but since I've watched the documentary about him I've become more sympathetic. :cry:
The fact that they have Leonard Cooper and Jennifer Giles in the tournament kind of indicates that Arthur Chu DID turn it down in my opinion.
How would his turning it down open up two spaces?
The powers have invited a representative from the Teachers, Teen, and College tournaments and that was probably one of the goals with it having nothing to do with Mr. Chu. I took as quick a spin as I could take on Arthur's Twitter feed and other than a retweet of a KJ tweet did not see anything in the J! area.

As for Who is Arthur Chu? It's worth seeing for the insight even though it's far from a perfect piece of art and certainly not a mood lifter.

My instinct would be Arthur was not invited (the powers would be troubled by a certain 3-word tweet) and since he is a board member perhaps he will confirm or deny if he was contacted prior to the announcement.

If the All Stars have an alternate(s) my list would have:

Dan Pawson (nothing against Larissa [glad she is included], but he did win the TOC against her as well as he did win his BotD game.)
Joon Pahk
Andrew Pau

The BotD may have ended the J! careers of Vijay Balse, Tom Nissley, and Keith Whitener.
What is Chu’s infamous three word tweet?
We're not going into that here, especially because it specifically is not tied to his not being in the tournament.
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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by boson » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:54 am

jpr281 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:04 am


I'm guessing the first 8 games will be to decide which 3 teams play in a 2-game final.

First 8 games: each team plays round-robin style and has 4 games.
That sort of works, but a round-robin tournament for 6 teams in 4 games doesn't work out evenly I don't think. I started doing the math on this, and realized I was heading down a rabbit hole of wasting time...

Can anyone map out a 3-team-game round robin for 6 teams?

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by jeff6286 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:32 am

boson wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:54 am
jpr281 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:04 am


I'm guessing the first 8 games will be to decide which 3 teams play in a 2-game final.

First 8 games: each team plays round-robin style and has 4 games.
That sort of works, but a round-robin tournament for 6 teams in 4 games doesn't work out evenly I don't think. I started doing the math on this, and realized I was heading down a rabbit hole of wasting time...

Can anyone map out a 3-team-game round robin for 6 teams?
To be a full round robin, meaning every possible combination of the 3 teams takes place, it would take 30 games, with each team playing 10. Here we only have 8. Every team will (presumably) face every other team but the number of times will vary. My team will play four matches, so eight total opponents, so will play each of the other five teams once or twice.

In a perfect world it would be done by random draw so It would be up to fate to see if we get to see Ken’s team versus Brad’s team once or twice, as an example. However, J! Has never shown any interest in making sure that their tournaments are fair. I wouldn’t be shocked if they make sure we see a Brad vs Ken vs Roger game. Maybe Buzzy vs Austin vs Alan as a TOC rematch?

There may be no obvious way of knowing if the matchups were drawn randomly or determined based on TV ratings considerations, but I’m guessing some of us will have our suspicions.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by slam » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:03 pm

jeff6286: Are you sure about needing 30 games? I think it's 20 (6C3) with each team needing to play 10 (there are 5 choices for a team's first opponent, then 4 choices for their second opponent producing 20 sets of opponents, but that double counts each potential line-up so there are 10). Am I missing anything?

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by slam » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:14 pm

jpr281 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:04 am
finishemzoe wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:35 am
I'm with the several like minds on here and Reddit that this is certainly a confusing format. 6 teams, 10 games? I've been trying to make sense of it ever since I first heard about the tournament and I just can't.
I'm guessing the first 8 games will be to decide which 3 teams play in a 2-game final.

First 8 games: each team plays round-robin style and has 4 games. Now, how they decide who the 3 teams in the final can go many ways: total amount won in the 4 games, total amount won in 3 best games (leaving out the lowest score which might entice larger FJ! wagers if you know that if you finish with $0 it won't hurt you as bad if you don't do it again), highest single amount won in a game, etc. It can go many ways.

It's not so confusing as it is the format hasn't been laid out yet.
I saw something (posted earlier in this thread) which suggests that it's your first option: total amount won in 4 games. Although you're second alternative seems plausible to me, I think it unlikely that J!, designed for a TV audience, will get that complicated.

In that same post, it mentions that there will be a 2 game final, so I agree with your thought about 8 games to determine the finalists.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by slam » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:18 pm

boson wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:54 am
jpr281 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:04 am


I'm guessing the first 8 games will be to decide which 3 teams play in a 2-game final.

First 8 games: each team plays round-robin style and has 4 games.
That sort of works, but a round-robin tournament for 6 teams in 4 games doesn't work out evenly I don't think. I started doing the math on this, and realized I was heading down a rabbit hole of wasting time...

Can anyone map out a 3-team-game round robin for 6 teams?
Here are the 20 matches needed to play a full round robin with 6 teams playing 3 at a time. These are in the order that I wrote them down. If they were to play such an event (and we know they'll only play 8 games before the finals), they would certainly change the order so that, for example, Colby's team doesn't play the first 10 games.

1 Colby Buzzy Julia
2 Colby Buzzy Ken
3 Colby Buzzy Austin
4 Colby Buzzy Brad
5 Colby Julia Ken
6 Colby Julia Austin
7 Colby Julia Brad
8 Colby Ken Austin
9 Colby Ken Brad
10 Colby Austin Brad
11 Buzzy Julia Ken
12 Buzzy Julia Austin
13 Buzzy Julia Brad
14 Buzzy Ken Austin
15 Buzzy Ken Brad
16 Buzzy Austin Brad
17 Julia Ken Austin
18 Julia Ken Brad
19 Julia Austin Brad
20 Ken Austin Brad

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by jeff6286 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Yes you are certainly right that it is 20, not 30. I forgot to double check my math on the last step.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by brick » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:29 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:53 am
brick wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:29 am
MarkBarrett wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:35 am
seaborgium wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:02 am
LucarioSnooperVixey wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:17 pm


The fact that they have Leonard Cooper and Jennifer Giles in the tournament kind of indicates that Arthur Chu DID turn it down in my opinion.
How would his turning it down open up two spaces?
The powers have invited a representative from the Teachers, Teen, and College tournaments and that was probably one of the goals with it having nothing to do with Mr. Chu. I took as quick a spin as I could take on Arthur's Twitter feed and other than a retweet of a KJ tweet did not see anything in the J! area.

As for Who is Arthur Chu? It's worth seeing for the insight even though it's far from a perfect piece of art and certainly not a mood lifter.

My instinct would be Arthur was not invited (the powers would be troubled by a certain 3-word tweet) and since he is a board member perhaps he will confirm or deny if he was contacted prior to the announcement.

If the All Stars have an alternate(s) my list would have:

Dan Pawson (nothing against Larissa [glad she is included], but he did win the TOC against her as well as he did win his BotD game.)
Joon Pahk
Andrew Pau

The BotD may have ended the J! careers of Vijay Balse, Tom Nissley, and Keith Whitener.
What is Chu’s infamous three word tweet?
We're not going into that here, especially because it specifically is not tied to his not being in the tournament.
If someone who knows the answer to my question could pm me the answer I would be grateful.

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Re: Jeopardy All-Star Games

Post by MinnesotaMyron » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:07 pm

OntarioQuizzer wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:53 am
brick wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:29 am
MarkBarrett wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:35 am
seaborgium wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:02 am
LucarioSnooperVixey wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:17 pm


The fact that they have Leonard Cooper and Jennifer Giles in the tournament kind of indicates that Arthur Chu DID turn it down in my opinion.
How would his turning it down open up two spaces?
The powers have invited a representative from the Teachers, Teen, and College tournaments and that was probably one of the goals with it having nothing to do with Mr. Chu. I took as quick a spin as I could take on Arthur's Twitter feed and other than a retweet of a KJ tweet did not see anything in the J! area.

As for Who is Arthur Chu? It's worth seeing for the insight even though it's far from a perfect piece of art and certainly not a mood lifter.

My instinct would be Arthur was not invited (the powers would be troubled by a certain 3-word tweet) and since he is a board member perhaps he will confirm or deny if he was contacted prior to the announcement.

If the All Stars have an alternate(s) my list would have:

Dan Pawson (nothing against Larissa [glad she is included], but he did win the TOC against her as well as he did win his BotD game.)
Joon Pahk
Andrew Pau

The BotD may have ended the J! careers of Vijay Balse, Tom Nissley, and Keith Whitener.
What is Chu’s infamous three word tweet?
We're not going into that here, especially because it specifically is not tied to his not being in the tournament.
Yeah, that's what the Reretaken Down thread is for.

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