Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by xxaaaxx » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:14 pm

jeff6286 wrote:
xxaaaxx wrote:They ran out of time in the J! round...but made it through DJ even with a full video category?!?!

And Betsy wasn't interested in winning, or 2nd place, apparently. True, she needed an overwager by Daniel, but $0?
She didn't need an overwager by Daniel at all, after Betsy missed the final clue and Daniel got it, the scores were left in the intriguing position of 3rd+2nd=1st, meaning that if Daniel had made the standard shutout wager, which he did, he would be left with $15,999, and Betsy's maximum score was $16,000. This is a wonderful position for Betsy to be in, so she should automatically bet it all, and if Daniel is paying attention he should only bet $6,400, rather than $6,401, in order to ensure that he doesn't lose to Betsy by a dollar. Then if Amy is paying attention, she should bet it all and give herself a chance to tie Daniel at $28,800 if they both get it right. She should have bet it all anyway, since she did need a miss by Daniel in order to win, and with the way the game ended up she essentially left over $10,000 on the table, as the only way her small wager benefited her was by ensuring that she couldn't drop from 2nd to 3rd and lose $1,000 had she been wrong and Amy right.

It certainly isn't too surprising at this point, but I was disappointed to see that not one of the three players recognized the unique positioning of the scores and bet appropriately for the situation. How can the leader not be paying enough attention to realize that by making the shutout wager and missing, they would be falling just $1 behind the maximum score of the third place player?
Oops...I mistakenly thought Daniel had 24k+.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by vellore » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:38 pm

xxaaaxx wrote:They ran out of time in the J! round...but made it through DJ even with a full video category?!?!
Yeah, that was strange, but I think that I've found one of the culprits---tonight the naming and description of the J! round categories seemed interminable. I felt ready for the first commercial break by the time Alex got to the Norman Invasion.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by debramc » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:49 pm

Ok folks who are waiting for the last bit of the game to be finished in the archive - it's done! Sorry, I had technical difficulties in the middle of the DJ round.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:42 pm

Since it won't take long I'll list everything I missed in the J! round:

7th Ave./Garment District
Okay, done.

Tonight's interview portion of the show went 3/3. It's always nice to hear Kiva mentioned and the 1M for Bob was fun to have a small part in a few months ago.

Daniel and Alex clicked well to handle the refrigerator story with what was said and not said. What a rotten appliance those things can be.

Besty and the animals drew great laughter from the sidelines it sounded like.

Daniel's 5K DD wager seemed to propel him to take off and enjoy a very good DJ round. It wasn't enough as Amy notched a sole solve win.

The FJ clue had me doing a Horace Greeley to head west, but I was 0/2 with Colorado and Wyoming in thinking those states had lots of room for growth. When the category was shown I figured the clue would be on of those +/-/% change ones and I knew I would only be playing a guessing game. My reaction is Tommy Lee Jones in The Fugitive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9grYYMNCJ3o

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by billy pilgrim » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:50 pm

For me the key info in FJ was the percentages. I sort of had heard that nevada had had big growth. I wondered if maybe Texas was one because of Katrina. Discounted that because of hte time frame. Then thought ok it's nevada and what neighbor?
Again hte percentages led me to a state with a fairly small population, and one big city. Arizona, et voila.
She caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:12 pm

I worked for the census in 2010 but haven't paid attention since. After considering FL-GA, I moved west and considered NV & AZ.(Also NM.) But for some reason I thought I should pair one of them with CA. So CA-NV it was...D-oh!

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by spell4yr » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:15 pm

My reasoning was somewhat flawed, but thankfully I had the correct answer. I started with Arizona due to the immigration issues -- I figured that plus people moving from the eastern U.S. would be enough for a large increase. So then I thought about bordering states -- Nevada came to mind first, and couldn't think of justification of N.M. to spike that much, figured Calif.'s percentage would be hurt by its size and number of people, and never really considered Utah ... so that left Az./Nev. So I was happy when the answers were revealed.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by bomtr » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:20 pm

billy pilgrim wrote:For me the key info in FJ was the percentages. I sort of had heard that nevada had had big growth. I wondered if maybe Texas was one because of Katrina. Discounted that because of hte time frame. Then thought ok it's nevada and what neighbor?
Again hte percentages led me to a state with a fairly small population, and one big city. Arizona, et voila.
Of states bordering NV, only Ca had/has a greater pop than AZ. UT, OR, and ID all have smaller populations and all have a city that's a major portion of that pop. It could be argued AZ has 2 big cities...

I had NV right away, then AZ a second later, but I worried about UT. Also wondered if Texas's gain might be big enough, but no neighbor fit the bill anyway.

Strange that Betsy wanted to go home...hope her work with diseases is more effective than her wagering philosophy. Yeah, everybody's getting sick, but there's nothing I can do about it... Pretty easy boards this night, I thought.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:27 pm

spell4yr wrote:figured Calif.'s percentage would be hurt by its size and number of people, and never really considered Utah
Actually, Utah was a very close 3rd (23.8% vs 24.6% for AZ).

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Leaper » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:28 pm

This game revealed/confirmed a couple of very personal and probably unshared pet peeves: when people only give a last name as an answer in a category that revolves around a given first name, and taking a Clue Crew category as anything but last (this one because I hate how long-winded the clues are, and I feel like I'm "missing" something better in the more succinct non-videos).

I knew the FJ answers were probably in the Southwest, but I latched onto California and didn't/couldn't let go, making my actual right guess at Arizona moot. Was Nevada's spot just something you had to already know? Why would it be growing so much? When did its economy start going down the crapper from plunging tourism and gambling revenue - after 2010, the last year specified in the clue?

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by dhkendall » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:35 pm

Days like today I'm glad I am one of the only boardies who enjoys the interview segment (or at least watches it regularly) - both the women's segments were entertaining: Amy for the shoutout to my favourite player (not to mention the Kiva team in which I'm also a member!) and Betsy for a throughly entertaining repartee with Alex, I wish more players were as comfortable with the interview segment as her ...

You know, if they were going to send Sarah to Norway, why'd they have to go with such tame food as lefse? I personally am of the feeling that Norway should make it a law that every non-Norwegian who arrives should be given some lutefisk. Anyone who doesn't come away violently ill will be allowed to stay, as they are truly Norwegian. :mrgreen:

Idly wondering if I would have been marked correct if I had said "second lef-tenant" in the J! round DD (since it dealt with a US rank, but lef-tenant and loo-tenant are spelled the same). (Academic point, really, as I was too busy having my wheels turn by the time the contestant gave their answer).
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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Doug527 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:35 pm

Leaper wrote:This game revealed/confirmed a couple of very personal and probably unshared pet peeves: when people only give a last name as an answer in a category that revolves around a given first name...
Trust me, it seems there a few people here with bees in their bonnets about not saying a first name. (There was a serious of comments in a thread a few weeks back) I want to repeat that the contestant coordinators do advise contestants to use only last names if its unambiguous to speed up play. What confounds me in your case is that it peeves you "in a category that revolves around a given first name". If the category is, say, NORMAN INVASION and clearly most of the answers are going to be people whose first name is Norman, what benefit is possibly served by repeating the word "Norman"?
Lifelong enthusiast. Season 28 contestant.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Leaper » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:38 pm

Doug527 wrote:What confounds me in your case is that it peeves you "in a category that revolves around a given first name". If the category is, say, NORMAN INVASION and clearly most of the answers are going to be people whose first name is Norman, what benefit is possibly served by repeating the word "Norman"?
I think it's because of a completely irrational and unfounded prejudicial belief that people skip the first name because they either don't know it or don't want to risk it being wrong. Thus, people who do it in those kinds of categories are either timid or stupid. :)

Like I said, irrational and unfounded. But then, like I said, these are pet peeves; hardly rational. :)

Now, the reminder that it's encouraged to speed things along... That I can understand! Perhaps that will help tamp down my irritation next time!

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by spell4yr » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:41 pm

econgator wrote:
spell4yr wrote:figured Calif.'s percentage would be hurt by its size and number of people, and never really considered Utah
Actually, Utah was a very close 3rd (23.8% vs 24.6% for AZ).
Yeah, I saw that when I looked it up afterward and would have been cursing myself had the percentages been reversed. But I just saw no reason to consider them -- blame my East Coast bias!

I mean, after all, I was working on somewhat flawed reasoning from the beginning.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alamble » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:06 am

Leaper wrote:
Doug527 wrote:What confounds me in your case is that it peeves you "in a category that revolves around a given first name". If the category is, say, NORMAN INVASION and clearly most of the answers are going to be people whose first name is Norman, what benefit is possibly served by repeating the word "Norman"?
I think it's because of a completely irrational and unfounded prejudicial belief that people skip the first name because they either don't know it or don't want to risk it being wrong. Thus, people who do it in those kinds of categories are either timid or stupid.
Or are "cheating," which is another common aspect of the complaint. It's especially unfounded in this particular scenario because Norman was NOT included in quotes, meaning that it wasn't a required part of the desired response.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by dmleach » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:08 am

I seem to have come to Final Jeopardy with an entirely different quandary: Las Vegas and Phoenix immediately came to mind as having large population increases, but I wasn't convinced that Nevada and Arizona actually touch one another. One of these days I'll learn my western geography down pat, but in the meantime I'm glad I went with it anyway. Tonight's correct response actually gives me a streak of five FJs in a row, and y'all know what a big deal that is for me :oops:
Doug527 wrote:Trust me, it seems there a few people here with bees in their bonnets about not saying a first name.
*whistles innocently*

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by HugoZ » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:27 am

dhkendall wrote:Days like today I'm glad I am one of the only boardies who enjoys the interview segment (or at least watches it regularly) - both the women's segments were entertaining: Amy for the shoutout to my favourite player (not to mention the Kiva team in which I'm also a member!)...
Seconding the sentiments on Bob Harris, though I'm old enough that he has to share the distinction with Frank Spangenberg.

Ditto on FOBH Kiva (member since Nov 2010). Looks like we just crossed the $1.5 million mark!

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by barandall800 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:31 am

Ugh. After a brief period of mind blankness at the start of FJ, I thought, "Wait a minute...haven't we had a pretty big population boom here in AZ?", and then went with Arizona and Nevada (after ruling out CA and UT, since I was pretty sure California's population growth has slowed in recent years, and Utah didn't strike me as having much growth either), then took a weird brief detour to Washington and Oregon, then went at the last few seconds with AZ and NM. It hurts much more to have the correct response, then abandon it, than to not have it at all, for sure. :oops:

Alex remarking about the close game a lot in the J! round reminded me of "The Social Network," when Prince Albert kept remarking about the close race after the regatta scene. :) I think all three players did very well, and although it was sad to see Daniel falter because of an FJ miss, Amy did quite well to stay within striking distance, and Betsy kept in the thick of things as well.

Glad to see all the clues uncovered in DJ!, even with Alex giving a LTAM warning w/quite a few clues left in play. Hopefully the recent trend of leaving clues unplayed starts to disappear in the future.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:48 am

jeff6286 wrote:She didn't need an overwager by Daniel at all, after Betsy missed the final clue and Daniel got it, the scores were left in the intriguing position of 3rd+2nd=1st, meaning that if Daniel had made the standard shutout wager, which he did, he would be left with $15,999, and Betsy's maximum score was $16,000. This is a wonderful position for Betsy to be in, so she should automatically bet it all, and if Daniel is paying attention he should only bet $6,400, rather than $6,401, in order to ensure that he doesn't lose to Betsy by a dollar.

Then if Amy is paying attention, she should bet it all and give herself a chance to tie Daniel at $28,800 if they both get it right. She should have bet it all anyway, since she did need a miss by Daniel in order to win, and with the way the game ended up she essentially left over $10,000 on the table, as the only way her small wager benefited her was by ensuring that she couldn't drop from 2nd to 3rd and lose $1,000 had she been wrong and Amy right.

It certainly isn't too surprising at this point, but I was disappointed to see that not one of the three players recognized the unique positioning of the scores and bet appropriately for the situation. How can the leader not be paying enough attention to realize that by making the shutout wager and missing, they would be falling just $1 behind the maximum score of the third place player?
I was very disappointed that an actuary didn't play with the numbers enough to tumble to this. He would have been very unhappy to lose by a dollar due to his wagering mistake.

I agree Amy could (probably should) have bet more than she did. It can be difficult to decide how much potential money to leave on the table in order to increase one's chances at second place. Her wager was not necessarily irrational. But playing the odds, she likely wasn't assessing the situation correctly. I think your assessment is basically correct, but you may not have highlighted the key point. You say, "She should have bet it all anyway, since she did need a miss by Daniel in order to win." But it's almost much always true that second place needs a miss from first place in order to win. In most of those cases, second place should not bet it all. The key point in Amy's situation is that, in order to win, she had to get FJ right. Once you're in that position, you may as well bet it all (ignoring any strategies to finish in second rather than third). If you miss FJ, the money you "lose" wouldn't have been yours to keep anyway. But if you get it right and win, the money becomes real.

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Re: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Vanya » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:52 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
xxaaaxx wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:I think "Santa Fe" was a HUGE red herring in Norman for $400.
I first learned Norman was in Oklahoma because of the Sooners. I have no idea how well-known a fact that is otherwise. Sadly, I also knew someone would say NM based on Santa Fe.
I knew about Norman, Oklahoma, but putting Santa Fe at the START of the clue is just asking for it IMO.
How many ways is this not a red herring? Two: the Santa Fe refers to the railroad (Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe); the University of NM is not in Santa Fe.

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