Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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MattKnowles
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MattKnowles » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:14 am

I guessed Picard and missed that clue. The Wayside Inn made me hesitate because it was after the "Way" category but I got it. I missed San Diego and guessed San Juan Capistrano for the California city where Juan sailed.
I had a dream that I was asleep and then I woke up and Jeopardy! was on.

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OldSchoolChamp
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OldSchoolChamp » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:14 am

Well, that was a travesty! Just as TPH said upthread, that was one of the biggest scoring foul-ups I’ve ever seen.

In the first place, they were right the first time to neg Hannah on “Marsh of Dreams.” Somnus doesn’t mean “dream,” it means “sleep.” And even if they were to accept “dreams” as a stretch of translation, it would have to be in the genitive plural, Palus Somniorum, not singular Palus Somni. So Hannah’s response was wrong, and she should not have been retroactively credited for it.

Then there’s the ruling on Dhruv. Again, they were right the first time to accept “Marsh of Slumber,” which is a perfectly valid translation of Palus Somni. Why they decided to reverse that ruling, I have no idea.

But this leads straight into one of my personal gripes about Jeopardy! scoring. Scenario A: Player 1 is negged for an incorrect response; Player 2 tries to rebound and also misses. The ruling on Player 1 is later reversed and ruled correct. Player 1 is therefore credited twice the value of the clue (restoring the original deduction plus the credit for a correct response). Standard practice is also to credit back the clue value to Player 2, on the grounds that if 1’s original response had been accepted, 2’s subsequent miss “would never have happened.”

But if Player 2 instead rebounds correctly (Scenario B), for some reason the same logic isn’t applied: When Player 1’s response is later retroactively accepted, 1 is still credited twice the clue value, but the clue value is not deducted from 2’s score, even though again the rebound “would never have happened.” I suppose this is meant to avoid the unpleasantness of taking money away from a player through no fault of their own, but (1) if the original ruling had been correct, Player 2 would never have had that money in the first place, and (2) giving Player 2 an unearned gift of the clue value is patently unfair to Player 1, may alter the wagering strategy in Final Jeopardy, and in some cases can unfairly cost Player 1 the game.

In tonight’s game, by (wrongly, in my opinion) reversing the ruling on Dhruv’s “Marsh of Slumber” from correct to incorrect, they changed the scenario from B to A, thereby necessitating crediting him back the clue value for what was now ruled a “miss that would never have happened.” Ironically, the upshot was to end up treating Scenario B the way it should be treated but never is. But that doesn’t make up for the fact that the two (incorrect, in my opinion) reversals on Palus Somni actually reversed the lead going into Final Jeopardy. It didn’t matter in the end because Jill missed the question; but if she’d gotten it right, it would have given her a win that rightfully belonged to Dhruv.

Add to all this the harsh (though proper) rulings on “Baltimore oriole” and Alex’s cringeworthy comments on Dhruv’s ethnicity, and it all made for a painful game to watch.
Even the President of the United States sometimes must have to stand naked.

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:22 am

Well, that ended up being a trainwreck of a match. A few cringeworthy Alex comments to boot.

Second Dhruv this year (albeit not in this season).
CasketRomance wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:18 pm
good to see that champion was a one and doner
I'm so glad you've added that thoughtful, incisive commentary to the discussion. I wonder if people will be rooting for you if you get on.

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:05 am

BRD-98 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:47 pm
I'm astounded that two players didn't take note of the "two word" stipulation on the FJ! clue.
Amen. Note to self: If I am ever fortunate enough to become a contestant (Hey! It could happen!), RTFC!

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:08 am

BRD-98 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:46 am
Lefty wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:41 pm
BRD-98 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:47 pm
I'm astounded that two players didn't take note of the "two word" stipulation on the FJ! clue.
They did say "the" and "an".
Not to be pedantic but I wouldn't think articles would count as a word in this case unless in a title or preceding some proper noun(s).

I'm now 10 in a row on Final Jeopardies. They've been real softballs recently.
If you are loath to be pedantic, you're on the wrong board. It's what we do here. :lol:

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JayK33
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by JayK33 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:15 am

alietr wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:22 am
Second Dhruv this year (albeit not in this season).
And the second Dhruv in the entire j-archive as well, as far as I know. The second Dhruv I've ever seen, too. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone with that name before Dhruv Gaur.

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:18 pm

46 R
DD: 3/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
LT: Kalahari, Picardi, Mouffalata, Ocean, (Ways and Means), Rays
Known in the real world as Douglas Squasoni.

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CasketRomance
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CasketRomance » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:47 pm

alietr wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:22 am
Well, that ended up being a trainwreck of a match. A few cringeworthy Alex comments to boot.

Second Dhruv this year (albeit not in this season).
CasketRomance wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:18 pm
good to see that champion was a one and doner
I'm so glad you've added that thoughtful, incisive commentary to the discussion. I wonder if people will be rooting for you if you get on.
i would hope nobody would...i like when people are against me and then i can shut them up by doing what they don't want me to do...but i will never make the show because i don't know enough lame art, opera, literature, science and political stuff....now if they had a game that was one half sports and the other half geography, i would most likely make the show and have a good chance at winning on that show

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OldSchoolChamp
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OldSchoolChamp » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:31 pm

CasketRomance wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:47 pm
alietr wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:22 am
CasketRomance wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:18 pm
good to see that champion was a one and doner
I'm so glad you've added that thoughtful, incisive commentary to the discussion. I wonder if people will be rooting for you if you get on.
i would hope nobody would...i like when people are against me and then i can shut them up by doing what they don't want me to do...but i will never make the show because i don't know enough lame art, opera, literature, science and political stuff....now if they had a game that was one half sports and the other half geography, i would most likely make the show and have a good chance at winning on that show
Is there a kill file on this board?
Even the President of the United States sometimes must have to stand naked.

—Bob Dylan

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alietr
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:38 pm

OldSchoolChamp wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:31 pm
Is there a kill file on this board?
In the upper right where your username is, click on the down arrow and then User Control Panel. The last tab is Friends & Foes. Click on that, and then Manage Foes on the left. You can add a username there to ignore their posts.

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:44 pm

CasketRomance wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:47 pm
alietr wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:22 am
Well, that ended up being a trainwreck of a match. A few cringeworthy Alex comments to boot.

Second Dhruv this year (albeit not in this season).
CasketRomance wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:18 pm
good to see that champion was a one and doner
I'm so glad you've added that thoughtful, incisive commentary to the discussion. I wonder if people will be rooting for you if you get on.
i would hope nobody would...i like when people are against me and then i can shut them up by doing what they don't want me to do...but i will never make the show because i don't know enough lame art, opera, literature, science and political stuff....now if they had a game that was one half sports and the other half geography, i would most likely make the show and have a good chance at winning on that show
well, African geography, anyway

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OldSchoolChamp
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OldSchoolChamp » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:23 pm

alietr wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:38 pm
OldSchoolChamp wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:31 pm
Is there a kill file on this board?
In the upper right where your username is, click on the down arrow and then User Control Panel. The last tab is Friends & Foes. Click on that, and then Manage Foes on the left. You can add a username there to ignore their posts.
[flush...]
Even the President of the United States sometimes must have to stand naked.

—Bob Dylan

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CasketRomance
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CasketRomance » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:42 pm

seaborgium wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:44 pm
CasketRomance wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:47 pm
alietr wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:22 am
Well, that ended up being a trainwreck of a match. A few cringeworthy Alex comments to boot.

Second Dhruv this year (albeit not in this season).
CasketRomance wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:18 pm
good to see that champion was a one and doner
I'm so glad you've added that thoughtful, incisive commentary to the discussion. I wonder if people will be rooting for you if you get on.
i would hope nobody would...i like when people are against me and then i can shut them up by doing what they don't want me to do...but i will never make the show because i don't know enough lame art, opera, literature, science and political stuff....now if they had a game that was one half sports and the other half geography, i would most likely make the show and have a good chance at winning on that show
well, African geography, anyway
wtf does that mean? not my fault you don't have contextual comprehension

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mxc_takeshi » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:41 pm

36 right.

Doc Trebek's Diagnosis (2), TV (4), Serious Talk (3), Hey Joe (4), Where You Going? (3), With That Lunch in Your Hand (2)
Conquistadors (4), Long Movies (2), Tools of Their Trade (2), Fictional Books in Books (3), Geography of the Moon (2), Words With a "Way" (5)

Lach Trash: Kalahari Desert; Daily Double: Committee of Ways & Means

I thinking of "auric" and "oro" with golden and pieced together "oriole"; since it was two words, I remembered to put the Baltimore in front.

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by BigDaddyMatty » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:36 am

Coryat: 35,600
45 R/0 W
DD: 2/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
LT: Kalahari Desert, muffaletta, ocean, Ways & Means (DD), rays, veterinarian

I love when I learn something while getting a clue right. State bird + black and orange led me to Baltimore oriole immediately, but I had never considered that oriole might come from the same root as oro. That's a cool fact.
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:29 pm
Can't say I've heard of "wayfarer" before. Rare 0/5 for me in a word category.
Wayfarers are the model of Ray-Ban sunglasses worn by Tom Cruise in Risky Business. They are also mentioned by Don Henley in "The Boys of Summer."
Image
As for the type of person, I imagine you've heard the adjectival form. You've been called upon to play "A Poor, Wayfaring Man of Grief" before, no?
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:28 am

BigDaddyMatty wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:36 am
Wayfarers are the model of Ray-Ban sunglasses worn by Tom Cruise in Risky Business. They are also mentioned by Don Henley in "The Boys of Summer."
Image
As for the type of person, I imagine you've heard the adjectival form. You've been called upon to play "A Poor, Wayfaring Man of Grief" before, no?
I've heard of the song "Wayfaring Stranger", but just never encountered the word as a noun to my knowledge. Or if I did encounter "wayfarer" I just didn't pick up on its meaning.

Just like how when I listened to the song "Blue Tacoma". Even though the FIRST LINE OF THE SONG is "Wheels rolling on an old Toyota", I never put the pieces together to realize that the title is referencing a blue Toyota Tacoma, simply because I can't name any other Toyota models besides Corolla and Prius.
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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cinemaniax7 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:39 pm

First of all, I responded "Baltimore oriole" on FJ because that's the official designation for the state bird of Maryland. That said, the clue could have been phrased better. If the judges wanted players to respond with two words, they should have phrased the clue "This 2-word name of a black and orange..." instead of "The 2-word name of this black & orange...." The first one says they're looking for the two-word name of the bird; the second says only that one of the words in the two-word name of the bird is derived from the Latin for "gold," but it does not specify that they need both words. Given that the losing players both identified the bird by its common name, which is the word derived from the Latin for "gold," I would have ruled their responses to be correct.

Given the problematic wording of FJ and the scoring error that was compounded by a dubious ruling, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one of the losing players back on the show in the not-too-distant future.

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:28 pm

cinemaniax7 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:39 pm
First of all, I responded "Baltimore oriole" on FJ because that's the official designation for the state bird of Maryland. That said, the clue could have been phrased better. If the judges wanted players to respond with two words, they should have phrased the clue "This 2-word name of a black and orange..." instead of "The 2-word name of this black & orange...." The first one says they're looking for the two-word name of the bird; the second says only that one of the words in the two-word name of the bird is derived from the Latin for "gold," but it does not specify that they need both words. Given that the losing players both identified the bird by its common name, which is the word derived from the Latin for "gold," I would have ruled their responses to be correct.

Given the problematic wording of FJ and the scoring error that was compounded by a dubious ruling, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one of the losing players back on the show in the not-too-distant future.
Thank you for pointing this out! It may well explain why 13% of us "misread" the intent of this clue, without being consciously aware.

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Re: Thursday, October 25, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Saturnalia » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:53 pm

cinemaniax7 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:39 pm
First of all, I responded "Baltimore oriole" on FJ because that's the official designation for the state bird of Maryland. That said, the clue could have been phrased better. If the judges wanted players to respond with two words, they should have phrased the clue "This 2-word name of a black and orange..." instead of "The 2-word name of this black & orange...." The first one says they're looking for the two-word name of the bird; the second says only that one of the words in the two-word name of the bird is derived from the Latin for "gold," but it does not specify that they need both words. Given that the losing players both identified the bird by its common name, which is the word derived from the Latin for "gold," I would have ruled their responses to be correct.
I sincerely believe that I did this, FWIW, though I shouldn't have been reading as quickly and carelessly as I was.

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