Tuesday, November 6, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

[SenseiCAY]

37R (29800)
3W (-2600)
Total: 26800

DD: 2/3
FJ:

LT: Turkey, Malaysia, Columbus

Ran the college football category, and only missed Russia on the biggest neighbor one

[Volante]

I knew what the final was going for but no way was I digging out 'C.' (the '1' part seemed obvious). As much as I wish we could lawyer 'atlas' as an acceptable answer, it's not like alphanumeric was used as a TOM...

[DBear]

got thoracic and lumber, of course I blanked on cervical....

[JayK33]

Speaking of the Teen Tournament, why did they stop bringing back their winners to ToCs? I know it's been that way for a long time now but what caused the change?

I'm still wondering about this. Anyone?

[MarkBarrett]

Speaking of the Teen Tournament, why did they stop bringing back their winners to ToCs? I know it's been that way for a long time now but what caused the change?

I'm still wondering about this. Anyone?

There are many things the powers don't give specific reasons for and teen champs no longer invited to the TOC is one of them. That leads to speculation. While one guess could be on target, five others could be way off base. The discussion has of course come up previous times over the years.

I do not recall all of the theories while I think the main one is the teen champs not able to compete well enough with the adults. TOC results show some of the teens making the semis and just as many out in the QF round. Finals or champion in the TOC? No, other than Eric Newhouse (older at that point) in the M$M finals.

Other possible reasons with varying levels of plausibility?

Accounting for an adult chaperone for a minor
Mixing a minor with adults
A teen taking a spot an adult could have had
Scheduling problems with the teen champ just starting off in college, abroad in Europe, etc.
The writers in conflict trying to stay fair by either including or avoiding younger people type material

The last ToC to have teens was 2000 with two qualifiers. Melissa Sextone went out quietly in the QF round while Chacko George won his QF game to make the semis. In the semis Chacko came in third missing a FJ! clue both of his opponents got.

To me those performances were not so poor to justify no longer inviting the teen champ to the big dance. If high-scoring 4x champs left out raised a stink to cause the change then too bad. They should have won five games.

[seaborgium]

There are many things the powers don't give specific reasons for and teen champs no longer invited to the TOC is one of them. That leads to speculation. While one guess could be on target, five others could be way off base. The discussion has of course come up previous times over the years.

I do not recall all of the theories while I think the main one is the teen champs not able to compete well enough with the adults. TOC results show some of the teens making the semis and just as many out in the QF round. Finals or champion in the TOC? No, other than Eric Newhouse (older at that point) in the M$M finals.

Other possible reasons with varying levels of plausibility?

Accounting for an adult chaperone for a minor
Mixing a minor with adults
A teen taking a spot an adult could have had
Scheduling problems with the teen champ just starting off in college, abroad in Europe, etc.
The writers in conflict trying to stay fair by either including or avoiding younger people type material

The last ToC to have teens was 2000 with two qualifiers. Melissa Sextone went out quietly in the QF round while Chacko George won his QF game to make the semis. In the semis Chacko came in third missing a FJ! clue both of his opponents got.

To me those performances were not so poor to justify no longer inviting the teen champ to the big dance. If high-scoring 4x champs left out raised a stink to cause the change then too bad. They should have won five games.

I think if ToCs had stayed as rigidly annual as the other two tournaments did, it wouldn't have been an issue, but once the ToC became unstuck in time, they started having multiple TTs and CCs within single ToC qualification periods. Then, after having four tournament winners in 2000, and more 5xers than they could fit in 2001 despite only having one tournament winner, I can imagine they decided it was untenable to preserve the automatic bids of winners of both tournaments, and the younger ones were the obvious choice for the chopping block.

Also, a note on Chacko: I recall reading a write-up on the 2000 ToC by an insider or insiders (possibly hosted on Michael Dupée's site) where it was explained that Chacko knew what was probably the correct answer in his SF FJ, and deliberately chose something else because he was in third place and could only win on a sole get. He recognized that, right or wrong, he couldn't win if he gave the same response as his opponents, so he broke from the response he thought his opponents would give (which they did), in the hope that it would turn out to be wrong, opening it up to him to pull off an upset with his second-best guess.

[opusthepenguin]

Also, a note on Chacko: I recall reading a write-up on the 2000 ToC by an insider or insiders (possibly hosted on Michael Dupée's site) where it was explained that Chacko knew what was probably the correct answer in his SF FJ, and deliberately chose something else because he was in third place and could only win on a sole get. He recognized that, right or wrong, he couldn't win if he gave the same response as his opponents, so he broke from the response he thought his opponents would give (which they did), in the hope that it would turn out to be wrong, opening it up to him to pull off an upset with his second-best guess.

Respect. Dude is a gamer if that's the case.

[Ironhorse]

I knew what the final was going for but no way was I digging out 'C.' (the '1' part seemed obvious). As much as I wish we could lawyer 'atlas' as an acceptable answer, it's not like alphanumeric was used as a TOM...

Maybe you could argue that L is a Roman numeral...

[seaborgium]

Also, a note on Chacko: I recall reading a write-up on the 2000 ToC by an insider or insiders (possibly hosted on Michael Dupée's site) where it was explained that Chacko knew what was probably the correct answer in his SF FJ, and deliberately chose something else because he was in third place and could only win on a sole get. He recognized that, right or wrong, he couldn't win if he gave the same response as his opponents, so he broke from the response he thought his opponents would give (which they did), in the hope that it would turn out to be wrong, opening it up to him to pull off an upset with his second-best guess.

I was able to find the notes on the 2000 ToC on the archived version of Michael's site. Two or three pages don't work, but Chacko's SF is there and there's no mention of this strategy. I know I read it somewhere, because I didn't come up with the strategy on my own; perhaps I read some hearsay on the old board. I find it credible, though, since I can hardly imagine

Spoiler

both knowing who Vo Nguyen Giap is and not knowing Ho Chi Minh was right. Maybe it could be a case where knowing a little more could distract from the correct response to what one could be considered an easy clue.

[JayK33]

Thanks for the responses.

While I've gotten used to how they do ToCs now, I do kinda wish they'd still allow Teen champs to participate. Maybe in the future they can have some kind of a Teen ToC where 15 winners of Teen Championships, who've won their tournaments after the current ToC rule began, could compete against each other for a certain prize. Just an idea.

[TenPoundHammer]

I recognized Mary Ann's pose as a Sailor Moon pose because I hang out with a lot of weebs.

J! round felt pretty easy for me other than Biggest Neighbor.

Ran Familiar Phrases. Surprisingly, Hezbollah = Lebanon was my only miss by the first break.

So of course I come off the rails in DJ! as usual. I find that way too often, a good J! round makes me psyche myself out. I knew a good number of answers, but they kept getting lost between my brain and mouth. Ended up 0/30 on the DJ! board.

I wonder if they would have accepted "floors" on the Bissell clue? The last two houses I've lived in were all hardwood or tile floors.

Let's see. I think the top spine is cervical... C1?

[mxc_takeshi]

34 right.

In the 90's (4), Familiar Phrases (4), 2018 College Football Names (5), What Do Your Shoes Mean? (2), Its Biggest Neighbor (2),
At the Soda Fountain (2)

In Their 90's (2), Raising Cane (3), Women's Firsts (2), On Broadway in 2018 (3), The Book of Romans (1), "Re"Noun (4)

Lach Trash: Christopher Columbus, The Phantom of the Opera

I had the right letter, but the wrong number (went with C6).