Friday, January 20, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[davey]

What TOM did I miss on the Arabian Nights clue that triple-stumped at $200?

Richard Burton. That's not the 20th century Welsh actor who married Liz Taylor twice in a row. It's the 19th century British explorer who famously traveled undercover to Mecca.

Yes. If it needs justification it is that the translation is well known, along with "Tales" and "Night" in the clue and category. And it should be pointed out to those who mentioned it that "1001 Nights" and "Arabian Nights" are the same thing.

I agree with a couple earlier posts that Alex should have asked for the response to be spelled in the final Roman numerals clue, if not negged it outright. Sure "mil" was pretty obviously the answer, but the name of the category was "Spelling It Out In Roman Numerals", so I had assumed that all of the responses needed to be spelled out. Mill would also be a word made up entirely of Roman numerals, so it is theoretically possible that a player could have been indicating the wrong answer despite it being pronounced the same.

And the contestants assumed that too. But maybe it wasn't the intention. If they had pronounced all the names it would have sped things up, which we're always hoping for, right? Russell was already too pokey, as someone else pointed out - though he was also lively and quipped with Alex, so I would have been happy to see him win.

A clue tonight (Physics $2000) was:

The idea that in a closed system matter is neither created nor destroyed is referred to by this 3-word phrase.

The accepted response was:

What is conservation of matter?

So that blows the theory from a few days ago that the correct response cannot contain a word from the clue. I rest my case (re: "old country").

Brian

That one really bugged me. "Conservation of matter" was all I could think of, but I didn't dare say it. I wondered if maybe "conservation of mass" was what they were looking for. But I had no confidence in that. A quick check tells me that answer would have been fine too.

I recall that back in the day, responses never contained a word that was in the clue. Not true anymore, it happens often.

I don't remember this ever being the rule on Jeopardy! Most contests, word games and puzzles, but not J! It's always irritated me a little bit.

I think the FJ clue would have been much harder if they hadn't specified 18th C. I bogged down for a few seconds with "The Kreutzer Sonata," a short story by Tolstoy, but of course that's not English or a novel or - and going back over the clue this is where the light came on - 18th century. There aren't that many works to choose from...
It's too bad Russell couldn't go from cross to Crusoe - he probably needed a few more seconds.

[opusthepenguin]

Lynn: If I bet $9,200 and get it right, I'll have $20,000.

I swear that some people use just that thinking.

And as a result...

I swear.

Brian

We've had one superchamp fewer than we could have thanks to that: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2552

Ouch. The thing is, Aaron could have gone for a nice round number by betting $3,100. that would have given him $20,000 on a sole get without him losing the triple stumper. Instead he bets $13,100 and forfeits the possibility of winning the triple stumper.

[seaborgium]

We've had one superchamp fewer than we could have thanks to that: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2552

Not exactly the same thinking, but I'd say one more: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=3786

Brian

Well, if, with second places who blindly shoot for a big round number, we're including second places with tunnel vision who only consider third place's maximum, I'll see you and raise Mehrun Etebari's sixth game: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=1879

[TenPoundHammer]

What TOM did I miss on the Arabian Nights clue that triple-stumped at $200?

Richard Burton. That's not the 20th century Welsh actor who married Liz Taylor twice in a row. It's the 19th century British explorer who famously traveled undercover to Mecca.

Yes. If it needs justification it is that the translation is well known, along with "Tales" and "Night" in the clue and category. And it should be pointed out to those who mentioned it that "1001 Nights" and "Arabian Nights" are the same thing.

Still seems like a lot for $200. I know what Arabian Nights/1001 Nights is, but absolutely nothing in the clue seemed to even hint toward it.

[reddpen]

Continents may have settled during shifting.

FTFY.

[Volante]

Still seems like a lot for $200. I know what Arabian Nights/1001 Nights is, but absolutely nothing in the clue seemed to even hint toward it.

Except the whole "Richard Burton translated" part. It's not that nothing hinted at it, it's that you didn't know what hinted at it. That's a crucial difference. (That's followed by 'how is this a hint?' Smegging boiled lobster and prime rib!! )
I was about to go with the Kama Sutra (which Burton also translated) until I remembered the category.

Mixed up Scene Selection for Fast Forward on the alliterative DVD clue. I blame David Lynch, who strips Scene Select from his DVDs (the newer Blue Velvet, Mulholland Drive).

Final wasn't an instant, but I landed on Crusoe about 10 sec in.

[TenPoundHammer]

Still seems like a lot for $200. I know what Arabian Nights/1001 Nights is, but absolutely nothing in the clue seemed to even hint toward it.

Except the whole "Richard Burton translated" part. It's not that nothing hinted at it, it's that you didn't know what hinted at it. That's a crucial difference. (That's followed by 'how is this a hint?' Smegging boiled lobster and prime rib!! )
I was about to go with the Kama Sutra (which Burton also translated) until I remembered the category.

I still call undervalued, and not in an "I've never heard of it" way. I just think that "no one even buzzes in on the top box" is a sign that it MIGHT be a little too tough for $200.

Sort of like that "notions" category a while back. You could tell none of the three knew what the flying hell notions were in that context.

[reddpen]

Mixed up Scene Selection for Fast Forward on the alliterative DVD clue.

Brain on FF, I said closed captioning for that DD. Nearly clammed that entire category, getting only 1600, which I can't now recall.

Final wasn't an instant, but I landed on Crusoe about 10 sec in.

'Bout the same here. Started trying to play with the pronunciation, then switched to 18th-century English title characters, which at least in my head is a short list.

In the Night Quill cat, did the "Moon like a flower" bit from Blake remind anyone else of this Doonesbury strip?

[jkbrat]

Mixed up Scene Selection for Fast Forward on the alliterative DVD clue.

Brain on FF, I said closed captioning for that DD.

Easter Eggs here. So many alliterative DVD terms from which to choose; so few hints as to how to choose correctly ....

Or is the fact that Roman Polanski disabled Fast Forward on this particular movie fairly well-known?

[TenPoundHammer]

Mixed up Scene Selection for Fast Forward on the alliterative DVD clue.

Brain on FF, I said closed captioning for that DD.

Easter Eggs here. So many alliterative DVD terms from which to choose; so few hints as to how to choose correctly ....

Or is the fact that Roman Polanski disabled Fast Forward on this particular movie fairly well-known?

I didn't even see the word "alliterative" in the clue and nearly WAGged pause.

[davey]

Mixed up Scene Selection for Fast Forward on the alliterative DVD clue.

Brain on FF, I said closed captioning for that DD.

Easter Eggs here. So many alliterative DVD terms from which to choose; so few hints as to how to choose correctly ....

Or is the fact that Roman Polanski disabled Fast Forward on this particular movie fairly well-known?

"


Not necessarily, but you wouldn't "disable" Easter eggs - the word in the clue - you just wouldn't have any. (Are they really that common to begin with?) You wouldn't "disable" scene selection either - you'd have no such area on the video and load the picture as one long scene. Fast forward you can disable.

[seaborgium]

I didn't even see the word "alliterative" in the clue and nearly WAGged pause.

That's 'cause it was in the category name.

[jpahk]

nobody else has yet mentioned my wrong FJ, which was tom jones. it has the virtue of being an 18th-century english novel, and tom jones is a foundling, so it seemed plausible that his last name might get changed... but i really, really, didn't like my answer because i was fairly sure the right answer was going to bear a phonetic similarity to kreutznaer. but i never got as far as crusoe. rats.

i wondered about "electrostatics" as well. they are typically pretty lenient about allowing an answer in the wrong part of speech (or plural/singular, etc.). crosswords have trained me pretty well to be attuned to that sort of thing (and i certainly said "what is static" playing along at home), but i don't really mind that they're usually generous about it. i actually thought for a bit that it might have been negged because they didn't want "electro" in the answer. still, it's bizarre.

i enjoyed russell's interview, but boy i hated watching him play the game, for the same reasons as austin powers. glad he's not the returning champ. then again, i also never really took to lynn, who always seemed like she wanted to indicate she knew the answer by both pressing the button and raising her hand at the same time. either that, or she was trying to use the signaling device as a lantern.

and yes, mark, a category like roman numerals is absolutely one where you bet the max on a DD no matter what the scores. unmissable, even if they didn't give you the other hints.

[TenPoundHammer]

and yes, mark, a category like roman numerals is absolutely one where you bet the max on a DD no matter what the scores. unmissable, even if they didn't give you the other hints.

Or, if like me, you can't remember for the life of you which letter is 500. I forgot it twice in the course of that category.

[dhkendall]

and yes, mark, a category like roman numerals is absolutely one where you bet the max on a DD no matter what the scores. unmissable, even if they didn't give you the other hints.

Or, if like me, you can't remember for the life of you which letter is 500. I forgot it twice in the course of that category.

No offence, but if they were like you, they wouldn't have a need to not make a TDD bet because there's no way in hell they'd be on the show.

[seaborgium]

i wondered about "electrostatics" as well. they are typically pretty lenient about allowing an answer in the wrong part of speech (or plural/singular, etc.). crosswords have trained me pretty well to be attuned to that sort of thing (and i certainly said "what is static" playing along at home), but i don't really mind that they're usually generous about it. i actually thought for a bit that it might have been negged because they didn't want "electro" in the answer. still, it's bizarre.

The clue specified the word would be an adjective (as bpmod pointed out). Electrostatics = noun.

[TenPoundHammer]

No offence, but if they were like you, they wouldn't have a need to not make a TDD bet because there's no way in hell they'd be on the show.

I know full well that I would never be on Jeopardy!, and there are plenty of reasons besides "I don't know a damn thing". I was just pointing out one of the other reasons: namely, my short term memory is shot.

[Sage on the Hudson]

Not necessarily, but you wouldn't "disable" Easter eggs - the word in the clue - you just wouldn't have any. (Are they really that common to begin with?) You wouldn't "disable" scene selection either - you'd have no such area on the video and load the picture as one long scene. Fast forward you can disable.

One can also disable the equally alliterative freeze frame -- and why would Polanski's demanding that that be deactivated be any less likely than fast-forward?

Actually, S. America is the easiest to identify a country from, because it's the continent (save Antarctica, of course) that has the fewest number of independent countries in it (12, compare with 54 in Africa, 49 in Asia, 50 in Europe, 23 in North America, and 14 in Oceania*)

.

You forgot Australia, the only country that takes up an entire continent (you don't think being a member of the British Commonwealth disqualifies it from being an independent country, do you?).

Instaget-ish FJ; made the Kreutzner-Crusoe connection immediately by sounding it out, but spent 20 seconds convincing myself there wasn't a better answer.

The clue's specifying that it was an 18th century work, along with sounding out "Kreutznaer" led to "Crusoe" pretty quickly, but there's another factor no one seems to have mention, and that's taking into account that the Jeopardy! writers fancy themselves as being clever.

Clever how? Well, there's one more contextual clue provided, though unwritten in the actual clue displayed onscreen. Let's see if you can figure it out (answer provided below in the spoiler):

Spoiler

This particular Final Jeopardy clue was run on a Friday, which, I suspect, wasn't mere coincidence...

[russhowes]

Hey board. Longtime follower, first time poster.

There were two edits from my episode that I wanted to mention/point out to maybe enlighten some of the questions about a couple of the clues

On the alliterative category, on the first clue I spelled out 'x-i' instead of pronouncing the word merely because I wasn't sure how to pronounce xi. (I know, a mathematician should know better.) That sort of led to a precedent in the category which I broke on the last clue by pronouncing 'mil'. There was a bit of an awkward pause and Alex didn't respond so I continued by then pronouncing the word. That got edited out (if you still have the episode DVR'd, notice when Alex pronounces that clue the video seems to be paused.)

In hindsight, I think they wanted us to just say the words...since the category was entitled "Spelling it out in Roman Numerals" instead of "Spell Out These Roman Numerals." Heaven knows it would have gone more quickly!

On 'electrostatics', I was originally given the response by Alex but was overruled by the judges (after a pretty lengthy pause/conversation). That also got edited out. It indeed was because electrostatics is not an adjective.

Part of the pausing was nerves but part of the pausing and category-shifting was to try and slow down the momentum of Lynn and Bob and prevent me from falling further behind (in the J! round). I feel like it worked well for me. I understand how that might not be the most entertaining but that seems a little harsh... I've seen way more obnoxious behavior/mannerisms. I'm actually pretty surprised nobody here has called me out for my conservative wager on the last Daily Double...

Finally, I just have to say that Bob was a 100% class act, both on the episode and throughout the taping day (and his wife was super nice). I'm definitely rooting for him Monday!

[alietr]

Welcome, Russ, sorry it didn't work out for you and thanks for the explanations. Don't take the criticism to heart; not too many people meet the exacting standards enforced here! Besides, at least here the criticism has a rationale instead of being for criticism's sake like TWOP ...