Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by reddpen » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:09 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:30 pm
By pure chance though, two of the clues that Brad uncovered were Daily Doubles.
If you really think seeking and finding DDs is "pure chance," I'm not sure you've been watching this game... or maybe you're just hard of herring. Players like Alex Jacob, Roger Craig and Brad Rutter have turned picking DDs into something approaching science. Of course there's an element of chance, but it's a long way from random.

I'd have sworn I predicted soon after the draft that Rutter/Kelly/Madden would win this, but maybe that post only happened in my head. So nice to see Larissa win her last game of a tournament, and that mammoth hug she gave Brad and then David looked like pure exuberance and delight. If anyone has a video capture of that moment, please post.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woof » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:10 am

This is the way the tournament ends, not with a bang but a whimper. :mrgreen: I agree with most of what’s been said here. Ken and Brad do not disappoint and can still lay claim to being the best of the best I thought that Pam deserves a special hazardous duty bonus for going up against those two huzzsaws two straight days and doing it with good humor and grace. Larissa and Matt certainly lived up to expectation, as did Alex and Ben. I was expecting more from Roger after his BotD performance, but maybe he wasn’t 100%. Who knows? Since I’ve never been up there doing what they do, far be it for me to criticize any of their performances. I did find it quite gratifying that the winning team had the players from longest ago (apart from Ken). Maybe we old farts have a chance :mrgreen:

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by JayK33 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:00 am

Congrats to Team Brad on the win.

While Brad has won every tournament he has competed in, him "never losing to a human" is technically not true.. He came in 3rd in the Watson challenge, finishing below Ken.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:39 am

Ken had the #3 pick, so getting Matt Jackson was not a big surprise. Brad picking 6/7 and getting Larissa and Dave? Worked out well for him, but hard to really blame the other captains. Julia picked the person who beat her in her TOC. Austin picked Roger, who hung with Ken and Brad in the BotD and could have easily won that. I have always been a fan of Pam’s and she has done well in past big tourneys, but yeah - you can argue Colby taking Larissa there. A situation where the captains just underestimated her based on a streak of “only” six and a couple of FJ missteps in tournaments. Again, worked out great for Brad.

That said, Brad turned two DDs into another $1M. He doesn’t need the $333,334, but it was nice to see Larissa contribute significantly to the win, and Dave’s comeback to the show went well for him. He had an impressive SJ.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:55 am

seaborgium wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:38 pm

Code: Select all

Team Ken:  32500 16200 48700  64900
Team Brad: 36000 34000 70000 104000
Team Colby: 8000  9600 17600  27400
Team Brad could have safely gotten to $75,099. I think it would have been funny if they'd finished at $75,001 as a little dig at Ken's old record.

Congrats to the one team whose members have each been on my pub quiz team! (I was surprised to end up with Larissa on my team the same day as this finished taping. I've played with Brad on several occasions and with David twice.) (I'll probably complete the Team Colby set sooner or later, since Alan isn't a stranger to the quiz. Only Team Ken and Team Julia didn't contain any former teammates.)

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by threearruda » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:11 am

Yeah I don't know why we expected anything different *shrug*. As much as he hates the Patriots, Brad reminds me an awful lot of them. Doubt all you want, until he pounces when it matters most.

Congrats to Larissa for finally emerging victorious in tournament play and to our own Dave Madden, whom I believe becomes the third biggest money-winner in J! history with an additional $333k payout.
goongas wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:22 pm
I guess they didn't want their All Stars to look bad by heavily challenging them compared to a tournament like the UTOC.
I think it's more along the lines of "How can we put on the best show for ratings".. this tournament was not designed for people such as you and I. That's the only problem I had with the tournament.

Placing a few easier clues will allow the average viewer to get a few right and feel just as smart as anyone on stage, while scores of $20-$30k are more likely to hold interest than an ugly game with $8k apiece (see the NFL. Offense rules now). This goes hand-in-hand with the draft livestream on Facebook, Insider show and the filler in the opening days, designed to peddle to the average viewer (at least.. that's my conspiracy theory :D).
Dumb college kid. Go BR!

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:50 am

So this is done.

On one hand I am happy I got to see some of my friends play again.

However I think ultimately this was a very unsatisfying experience.

One issue I have mentioned. I felt the questions were not obviously more difficult. For those of you who question that, just stroll through the UTOC questions one day.

This was especially true with FJ, and in that case it took some of the drama and variance out of the last two matches. No questions on “Crete” Garfield here!

I actually felt like some of the middle row questions were as difficult as the bottom row. So, with most players bouncing around, it took away any risk to that. Hop to the bottom all you want - you won’t be punished for it.

And then what winds up happening is that it becomes a race to find the daily doubles. The wild card and the finals in particular were deternined by the DDs.

That’s a crapshoot. Great for Brad, who only adds to his legacy, but Ken actually got more bottom row clues - but he didn’t get the DDs, and that was that.

Other issues I would note. I think some of the contestants looked less sharp early on and that’s because they did not have buzzer practice the day of.

It’s also tough to get a rhythm when you get tossed out there and have to play Ken, who remains preternatural at buzzing, and you don’t get another round to show that the light bulb has come on. And then people (like me) go online and say you did bad.

The format was also wordy to explain. It just felt a little odd and erratic at times, especially with the heavy amounts of filler up front. I felt they could have had MORE games, not less. So, not only was the food not great, but the portions were too small.

And it really teased you with some contestants. I would have liked to have seen Larissa more. Great that she did well, but we got just over an episode of her to see her do her thing. That’s unsatisfying, too.

I also felt the show was hamstrung by the need to highlight recent champs who are good, not great. Personally I would rather see a Jerome Vered or Leslie Shannon up there, and not Austin Rogers’ armpit fart routine. I know these folks still know their stuff - they showed it this weekend in Vegas, for example - and I feel that some of these champs might have put up a bit more of a fight. It’s weird to have a team tournament and you are wondering how some teams are specifically going to try to hide the deficiencies of some of the less strong players by sticking them in SJ or hoping they can pull off the FJ. A tournament of great players shouldn’t have to do that, right?

I’ve moaned for years, while waving folks off my lawn, that back in the day the champs were, more often than not, better. Certainly what we saw here did nothing to change that perception, as the more recent you were on the show, generally the less impressive you were. The ancients like Ken, Brad and Pam generally did quite well, and Larissa and Dave were also great. Matt Jackson was terrific, as was Alex, but neither of these great players were captains, which helped facilitate a draft process that led to the lopsided results seen over the past two weeks.

So, this was ok. Glad to see Brad and Ken still have it. But I feel this won’t and shouldn’t happen again.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by heppm01 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:02 am

The episode ended with a whimper instead of bang, and this led me to an idea for leveraging the "two-day total" thing a bit more:

For the FJ! round, the player can continue to wager based on that day's winnings. But after that round there would be a MegaJeopardy!(tm) round where the team can wager based on their cumulative winnings from the two days, the MJ! clue is fiendishly difficult and all three team members collaborate on the response. Yes, it breaks the format but the "two-day total" is a kludge as well.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:37 pm

Buzzer race? Uh, yeah. Looked as if Monica was going to break her wrist trying to buzz in some times. Disappointing to me to see it come down to that, but I'm not sure what clues they would have to put up there to differentiate among all these contestants and their collected brain power.

Got my only two LT clues way early, with Ed Meese for $1K and clue for $600.

I had a moment of stand-and-stare-and-panic at this FJ. I sorta know most of the amendments but probably not as cold as I should. So I honestly questioned whether freedom of religion was 1 or something else, and whether 13 or 14 ended slavery. Did know the 21st, though. And I ended up picking up the three correct ones to end the tournament with 2-for-2 FJ in the final, so I'm pleased.

Now I hope all these wonderful all-stars can go home and relish their return to the spotlight and their new cash infusion and let some new people play for a long, long time to come.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:19 pm

John Boy wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:37 pm
Buzzer race? Uh, yeah. Looked as if Monica was going to break her wrist trying to buzz in some times. Disappointing to me to see it come down to that, but I'm not sure what clues they would have to put up there to differentiate among all these contestants and their collected brain power.
The only boards that would turn this into a 'knowledge' battle would make the clues so esoteric we'd all be over here with maybe 10 right across both days.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:36 pm

Austin Powers wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:50 am
It’s weird to have a team tournament and you are wondering how some teams are specifically going to try to hide the deficiencies of some of the less strong players by sticking them in SJ or hoping they can pull off the FJ. A tournament of great players shouldn’t have to do that, right?
Possibly they made the last two FJs on the easy side so as to give the teams with a very low draft pick a more competitive chance.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:22 pm

reddpen wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:09 am
opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:30 pm
By pure chance though, two of the clues that Brad uncovered were Daily Doubles.
If you really think seeking and finding DDs is "pure chance," I'm not sure you've been watching this game... or maybe you're just hard of herring. Players like Alex Jacob, Roger Craig and Brad Rutter have turned picking DDs into something approaching science. Of course there's an element of chance, but it's a long way from random.
The DDs were the 8th and 10th clues of the round. At that point, Ken had had the opportunity to select 2 clues. The $1200 clue in WRITERS ON THE STORM and the $2000 clue in the same category. (EDIT: Sorry, 3 clues. He also chose the first clue of the round, $800 in the WRITERS category.) I will concede that the $2000 choice was probably not optimal. I think in general though, Ken is not inferior to Brad in clue selection. That is why I chose the term "pure chance". When two people of equal clue-selecting ability go up against each other, it is not skill that determines who gets the DDs. Thanks for the lecture, though.
Last edited by opusthepenguin on Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:33 pm

harrumph wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:36 pm
Austin Powers wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:50 am
It’s weird to have a team tournament and you are wondering how some teams are specifically going to try to hide the deficiencies of some of the less strong players by sticking them in SJ or hoping they can pull off the FJ. A tournament of great players shouldn’t have to do that, right?
Possibly they made the last two FJs on the easy side so as to give the teams with a very low draft pick a more competitive chance.
It seems to me if you're in third place, your best hope is for a difficult FJ that you happen to know. It's not a great hope. But you need something that can simultaneously move your score up and the other two scores down. An easy FJ just moves all three scores up and leaves you in last place.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:07 pm

Austin Powers wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:50 am
It’s weird to have a team tournament and you are wondering how some teams are specifically going to try to hide the deficiencies of some of the less strong players by sticking them in SJ or hoping they can pull off the FJ. A tournament of great players shouldn’t have to do that, right?
I think there's going to be a talent disparity even at the elite level. That would be like saying every starter in the NBA should be able to hold their own against LeBron James.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 pm

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:07 pm
Austin Powers wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:50 am
It’s weird to have a team tournament and you are wondering how some teams are specifically going to try to hide the deficiencies of some of the less strong players by sticking them in SJ or hoping they can pull off the FJ. A tournament of great players shouldn’t have to do that, right?
I think there's going to be a talent disparity even at the elite level. That would be like saying every starter in the NBA should be able to hold their own against LeBron James.
Surely but I feel like you fill out the teams with Giannis, several Warriors, Anthony Davis, etc, etc. If Paul George is your option that's still ok! Damian Lillard, I'll take! Rudy Gobert, too!

But I feel like this is more like having Ben Simmons on your team, and you have to cover up for the fact that this guy is completely incapable of shooting the ball.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by RKane » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:59 pm

Not bad. Although I precalled Team Brad steamrolling from the get-go. That's a mindboggling stacked team, amazing how that worked out. (Not to mention the man is supernaturally lucky and talented anyways, even if he had Cliff Clavin and myself on his team, I'd still bet on him.)

So this was the first major tourney in J! history without Frank in it, eh? A shame that he lost that streak, but I suppose that people these days are more interested in the hip and memetic Rogers/Cohen school.

I hope if they do another one of these it's the traditional format though, every man for himself.
I'm done. Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:13 pm

RKane wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:59 pm
Not bad. Although I precalled Team Brad steamrolling from the get-go.
So what was your reaction when that didn't happen? :D

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:50 pm

Instaget FJ, those are three high profile amendments.

I wasn’t a fan of the format, but I don’t fault them for trying. With today’s news, this could be Alex’s last mega-TOC, but hopefully he will be able to host another before he retires on his own terms. I would love to see him end his career with the greatest of all 35 years in a special tournament.

But it would be another Brad steamroll, so maybe not.

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by chmmr » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:23 am

reddpen wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:09 am
opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:30 pm
By pure chance though, two of the clues that Brad uncovered were Daily Doubles.
If you really think seeking and finding DDs is "pure chance," I'm not sure you've been watching this game... or maybe you're just hard of herring. Players like Alex Jacob, Roger Craig and Brad Rutter have turned picking DDs into something approaching science. Of course there's an element of chance, but it's a long way from random.
I was going to make a joke about the Lighthouses category being a magnet for DDs, but it's actually true. Pre-all-stars had 58% of lighthouse categories yielding a DD.

Now for the writers of the show to read this and never put one there again :lol:

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Re: Tuesday, March 5, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Giannid » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:30 pm

Johnblue wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:23 pm
Would indenture have sufficed for apprenticeship?
7 years was usually the maximum length of this period of learning one's trade from a craftsman

My first thought was also indentured servitude. This goes beyond simple apprenticeship in my opinion. The trade would usually have been learned in a few months, but the indentured servant would remain bonded for the full 7 years.

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