Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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TheSunWillComeOut
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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TheSunWillComeOut » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:21 pm

Austin Powers wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:10 pm
TheSunWillComeOut wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:01 pm
Indeed not, but this continues to be curious, particularly in his lack of surprise that someone should create such an involved fan page in his name for unclear reasons (as opposed to, for instance, posting on a site like this), which would be my first concern if I were him. If the champ were a woman, would we not all be considering the strong likelihood that this person has developed an obsessive romantic fixation, and may intend to escalate? Could it not be the same for a man, and if so, wouldn't that be something we should take more seriously instead of dismissing it as no big deal, as his friends seem to be doing at the moment? They've made it clear that they're not fazed by this, and are insistent that we shouldn't be, either, and yet I'm seeing no clear evidence for why that should be the conclusion.
You've mentioned this before, but it doesn't really follow.

Let's say it is an obsessed, "crazy" fan. Does it really make sense to antagonize that fan? Does it even make sense to vindicate the obsession by contacting that fan? It would seem the actions taken make complete sense given the argument you've just made.
If the site were going unnoticed, I would agree, but given that contestants are already emailing the site en masse and saying "TAKE THIS DOWN!" or "TELL ME WHO YOU ARE!", you would think there would be a quiet gossip chain among the trivia community, from friends of James to friends-of-friends, to say, "Look, he knows this is creepy but doesn't want to make it weird, just back off." But I haven't seen any of that. It's more of a "Pay no attention to the man/woman behind the curtain" vibe, and that's the part which is incompatible with that scenario.

Keep in mind, we've had cases where women in this community were being menaced by similar "fans," and I remember there were targeted efforts to keep each other posted about potential threats. No one who took it seriously dismissed it as is being done now. If asked about it, the women would say, even to other women they didn't know well, "Yes, this person frightens me, and please tell me what channels I can use to keep tabs on this/resolve it."

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:46 pm

TheSunWillComeOut wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:21 pm
If the site were going unnoticed, I would agree, but given that contestants are already emailing the site en masse and saying "TAKE THIS DOWN!" or "TELL ME WHO YOU ARE!", you would think there would be a quiet gossip chain among the trivia community, from friends of James to friends-of-friends, to say, "Look, he knows this is creepy but doesn't want to make it weird, just back off." But I haven't seen any of that. It's more of a "Pay no attention to the man/woman behind the curtain" vibe, and that's the part which is incompatible with that scenario.

Keep in mind, we've had cases where women in this community were being menaced by similar "fans," and I remember there were targeted efforts to keep each other posted about potential threats. No one who took it seriously dismissed it as is being done now. If asked about it, the women would say, even to other women they didn't know well, "Yes, this person frightens me, and please tell me what channels I can use to keep tabs on this/resolve it."
I hope it's not like mentioning Voldemort, but let's invoke Zach Horan. (Hi, Zach! Pull your pants up when I am talking to you.)

It took YEARS for that guy to get exposed. Most of us thought he was a creep, but just to the "mentioning-metaphorical-penises-on-a-message-forum" level. The behind the scenes stuff took forever to come to light.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:48 pm

Austin Powers wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:46 pm
I hope it's not like mentioning Voldemort, but let's invoke Zach Horan. (Hi, Zach! Pull your pants up when I am talking to you.)
I'm not sure it's you that would need to worry about that. And not a name I wanted to see on here ever again.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hanzz » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:05 pm

Production is aware of the site. They have no concerns.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:48 pm

Austin Powers wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:18 pm
As some of you know, I have to tell terrible news to people all too often thanks to my work. The other day I looked at someone’s fingernails and told them something absolutely awful but unfortunately ultimately proven to be true. If you ever run into me - the stories I could tell.

These are such sad scenes. I can’t sleep sometimes because of this stuff. (Contrary to rumor, I have a soft underbelly).

Two days ago, I told a family some devastating news. No-getting-around-it impossible-to-fix news. Just a gut punch. It was a big mess.

But I softened the blow with a little bit of good news. “It could be worse. Someone could have created a fan webpage for a TV game show, referring to the defeated as the ‘humbled.’ It might have even violated a nondisclosure agreement that’s the very underpinning of the show’s long term commercial sustainability. So you have that going for you, which is nice.”

They looked at me like I was an utter loon. Note to self: don’t say that again in that situation.
weird flex but ok

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:01 pm

seaborgium wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:48 pm
Austin Powers wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:18 pm
As some of you know, I have to tell terrible news to people all too often thanks to my work. The other day I looked at someone’s fingernails and told them something absolutely awful but unfortunately ultimately proven to be true. If you ever run into me - the stories I could tell.

These are such sad scenes. I can’t sleep sometimes because of this stuff. (Contrary to rumor, I have a soft underbelly).

Two days ago, I told a family some devastating news. No-getting-around-it impossible-to-fix news. Just a gut punch. It was a big mess.

But I softened the blow with a little bit of good news. “It could be worse. Someone could have created a fan webpage for a TV game show, referring to the defeated as the ‘humbled.’ It might have even violated a nondisclosure agreement that’s the very underpinning of the show’s long term commercial sustainability. So you have that going for you, which is nice.”

They looked at me like I was an utter loon. Note to self: don’t say that again in that situation.
weird flex but ok
I sprained my neck reading it.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:05 pm

Austin Powers wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:01 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:48 pm
Austin Powers wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:18 pm
As some of you know, I have to tell terrible news to people all too often thanks to my work. The other day I looked at someone’s fingernails and told them something absolutely awful but unfortunately ultimately proven to be true. If you ever run into me - the stories I could tell.

These are such sad scenes. I can’t sleep sometimes because of this stuff. (Contrary to rumor, I have a soft underbelly).

Two days ago, I told a family some devastating news. No-getting-around-it impossible-to-fix news. Just a gut punch. It was a big mess.

But I softened the blow with a little bit of good news. “It could be worse. Someone could have created a fan webpage for a TV game show, referring to the defeated as the ‘humbled.’ It might have even violated a nondisclosure agreement that’s the very underpinning of the show’s long term commercial sustainability. So you have that going for you, which is nice.”

They looked at me like I was an utter loon. Note to self: don’t say that again in that situation.
weird flex but ok
I sprained my neck reading it.
As did we all, I'm sure!

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cheezguyty » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:15 pm

Woof wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:34 pm
I agree that James has settled all question of whether he deserves to be ranked among the greatest of the superchamps. My question, for those of you know who keep track of such things, is how does James's average Coryat compare to the best ever?
Here's everyone with an average Coryat of at least $25,000 (or $12,500 for the old clue values) across all of their regular-play appearances:

$27,861 - Ken Jennings (75 games; $27,000 after his first 5)
$27,800 - James Holzhauer (through 5 games)
$26,520 - Brian Weikle (5)
$25,600 - Reid Setzer (1)
$25,000 - Tom Kelso (4)
=======
$13,740 - Jerome Vered (5)
$12,960 - Wes Ulm (5)
$12,760 - Dan Girard (5)

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:07 pm

If you win record-breaking money on Jeopardy, you really don’t need to promote yourself, the media will come calling. Witness James on Tuesday. Now, someone who does better than the average player, wins say 4 or 5 games, even gets to a TOC, may want to capitalize on their 15 minutes by creating a fan page, whatever. What’s my point? I believe it’s not James and I’m still neutral on him as a human being, I’m going to keep watching and never visit that sophomoric web site again.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woof » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:09 pm

alietr wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:48 pm
Austin Powers wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:46 pm
I hope it's not like mentioning Voldemort, but let's invoke Zach Horan. (Hi, Zach! Pull your pants up when I am talking to you.)
I'm not sure it's you that would need to worry about that. And not a name I wanted to see on here ever again.
It appears that this might embody an extension of Godwin's Law.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Fleeboy » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:19 pm

hbomb1947 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:51 pm

Is James the first contestant to have runaways in 4 of his or her first 5 games? Even Ken "only" had 3.
The archive confirms that Chuck Forrest (his fifth win was a lock-tie scenario entering FJ), Robin Carroll, and Rick Knutsen had runaways in all five of their regular-season games.

According to StevenH in a post from 2015, Mike Day and Jonathan Groff also had five lock (or lock-tie) wins in five games.
Last edited by Fleeboy on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:25 pm

Fleeboy wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:19 pm
hbomb1947 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:51 pm

Is James the first contestant to have runaways in 4 of his or her first 5 games? Even Ken "only" had 3.
Chuck Forrest (his fifth win was a lock-tie scenario entering FJ), Robin Carroll, and Rick Knutsen had runaways in all five of their regular-season games.
And the 4 of 5s include Matt Jackson, Anne Boyd, and Jerry Slowik. (I came one clue choice in my third game from being another one.)

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Cat Hammarskjold » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:30 pm

cheezguyty wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:15 pm
Woof wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:34 pm
I agree that James has settled all question of whether he deserves to be ranked among the greatest of the superchamps. My question, for those of you know who keep track of such things, is how does James's average Coryat compare to the best ever?
Here's everyone with an average Coryat of at least $25,000 (or $12,500 for the old clue values) across all of their regular-play appearances:

$27,861 - Ken Jennings (75 games; $27,000 after his first 5)
$27,800 - James Holzhauer (through 5 games)
$26,520 - Brian Weikle (5)
$25,600 - Reid Setzer (1)
$25,000 - Tom Kelso (4)
=======
$13,740 - Jerome Vered (5)
$12,960 - Wes Ulm (5)
$12,760 - Dan Girard (5)
Matt Jackson's average Coryat was $25,338.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hbomb1947 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:37 pm

seaborgium wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:25 pm
Fleeboy wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:19 pm
hbomb1947 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:51 pm

Is James the first contestant to have runaways in 4 of his or her first 5 games? Even Ken "only" had 3.
Chuck Forrest (his fifth win was a lock-tie scenario entering FJ), Robin Carroll, and Rick Knutsen had runaways in all five of their regular-season games.
And the 4 of 5s include Matt Jackson, Anne Boyd, and Jerry Slowik. (I came one clue choice in my third game from being another one.)
Thanks for the info!

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:39 pm

On the surface, this was an easy FJ. But to solve involves combining a fact from 6th or 7th grade history with a skill from 3rd grade arithmetic, and how near in the brain do those two areas lie?

My nominee for "overvalued" was Montana-->North Dakota-->? for $2000. Those are huge states, and they're right on top. Much easier than starting smack in the middle, or trying to picture how those tiny New England states line up. And I say this as an eastern establishment elitist given to "flyover" references though I haven't actually been on a plane since 2001.
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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:41 pm

Robert K S wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:16 pm
I kinda admire the "I have a profession that involves me giving devastating news to people so game show stuff doesn't matter even though I post regularly on a game show forum" angle. Not as much as the "You're witnessing history, so lie back and think of England" angle, but definitely more than the "It could've been me, but pity, I no longer have the tiger blood" angle.
Remember when Charlie Sheen subjected himself to that celebrity roast? Maybe that's what this board needs to take itself to the next level.
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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:43 pm

Lefty wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:39 pm
On the surface, this was an easy FJ. But to solve involves combining a fact from 6th or 7th grade history with a skill from 3rd grade arithmetic, and how near in the brain do those two areas lie?
I didn't know Romanov was the family name until I read From Russia With Love and I would've been in high school at the time.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cheezguyty » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:44 pm

Cat Hammarskjold wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:30 pm
cheezguyty wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:15 pm
Woof wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:34 pm
I agree that James has settled all question of whether he deserves to be ranked among the greatest of the superchamps. My question, for those of you know who keep track of such things, is how does James's average Coryat compare to the best ever?
Here's everyone with an average Coryat of at least $25,000 (or $12,500 for the old clue values) across all of their regular-play appearances:

$27,861 - Ken Jennings (75 games; $27,000 after his first 5)
$27,800 - James Holzhauer (through 5 games)
$26,520 - Brian Weikle (5)
$25,600 - Reid Setzer (1)
$25,000 - Tom Kelso (4)
=======
$13,740 - Jerome Vered (5)
$12,960 - Wes Ulm (5)
$12,760 - Dan Girard (5)
Matt Jackson's average Coryat was $25,338.
That was his average for the 13 games that he won. The $13,800 Coryat in his losing game dropped his overall average to $24,514 (still certainly one of the all-time highest! :)).

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CailinGaoilge » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:02 pm

Being more of a casual fan than most people here (ie I am not J! standard and not trying to get on the show/been on the show), I don't know James and have no knowledge of any earlier issues with him. As a neutral observer, then: the site bothers me. It's mostly fine as it is now, but I saw spoilers that were later removed, and I saw the offensive "The Humbled". The whole thing struck me as arrogant and nasty, and I hoped this upcoming player was not behind it.

To me, this FB post by James is a non-denial and actually makes me more inclined to believe he is involved somehow. "Authored by" is a careful choice of words which explicitly does not rule out his having paid for it, or asking someone else to create and maintain it, or supplying the responsible person with information. If he is genuinely not involved, why not say precisely that? If he doesn't want to call attention to the site, all he has to do is say that the FB page is the only fansite he has any involvement with. Would there be those who don't believe him? Maybe. But people like me would. Which, from my perspective, would be good because I want to root for strong contestants.

Do I think, if he is involved, that he deserves to lose his winnings or TOC place? Of course not - but I do think that it reflects very badly on him, and I think those former champions who are angry have every right to be. They did not act unethically, and they did not insult defeated contestants.

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Re: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:11 pm

TheSunWillComeOut wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:11 pm
twelvefootboy wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:08 pm
TheSunWillComeOut wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:00 pm

Yes, there were, which is why past contestants are asking questions, not because "they are haters." It's people rightfully wondering whether somebody else, a contestant or an audience member, violated the contractual rules of secrecy by which we abided, and by which all of our studio guests abided.
Just as FYI, I posted my experience earlier as an audience member in December 2017, and the subject of non-disclosure NEVER came up. Not in writing, not in the waiting line, not in warmup. I do agree with hbomb that this tiny demographic of diehards is probably not on TPTB radar.
I can clarify what I meant: It is regularly implied to contestants that any friends and family they bring to taping have a responsibility to keep the silence about your results, or else your own winnings may be forfeit. Is that the case or not? Because if not, and if audience members do indeed have free rein to speak, is there any obligation for anyone to avoid spoilers in 2019? Can contestants now come home and tell everyone, "I won on October 8, check it out"?
IANAL, but I'm pretty sure enforcement of a contract is at the sole discretion of contracting parties, so Sony can choose to enforce its terms or not. Given that Sony has actively published spoilers about James's run, even disseminated them to people who had no intention of looking up any information on Jeopardy!, it seems pretty clear where they stand in this case. They judged that certain spoilers would be profitable to them. I wouldn't draw any general conclusions from such a singular case.

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