Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, dhkendall, trainman, econgator

Post Reply
User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1575
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:39 pm

Golf wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:27 pm
gnash wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:12 pm
There's no sound theory saying that the third should not wager everything.
Huh?

His only chance to win is to hope both competitors miss and 2nd wagers poorly. It doesn't matter whether he answers correctly or not so long as he doesn't wager more than $4600. Which he did.
That works if 2nd place wagers everything (or nearly everything) but fails if 2nd place wagers to beat leader's pre-FJ score. Both are common wrong wagers.

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4504
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:44 pm

hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:12 am
MarkBarrett wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:06 am
hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:00 am
King Jame has fallen. Long live King James. His legacy is as the greatest regular-play contestant in the Trebek incarnation of the show. The way he now totally dominates the record books is astonishing. Now we'll get to see how he does in tournaments, including the inevitable matchup with Ken and Brad.
Did Ken's win total or total money won get surpassed and I missed it?
In every meaningful per-game metric, James was superior to Ken, over a vast sample size. Remember DHKendall's sig line.
It's sort of like comparing Cy Young to Sandy Koufax. I'd say Koufax was the better pitcher even though he won a third as many games as Young did.

User avatar
morbeedo
In Jeopardy! Limbo
Posts: 2246
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:48 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:26 pm
Robert K S wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:07 pm
Has anyone figured out what James said to Jay during the Final reveals?
Any lip readers want to give it a shot?
"Why would you do that?"

User avatar
morbeedo
In Jeopardy! Limbo
Posts: 2246
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:51 pm

hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:22 pm
yclept wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:04 pm
Jeopardy likely has its top single day win for eternity unless the dollar amounts change on the clues, which seems highly unlikely.
J! hasn't doubled its clue values since November 2001. $2,000 in 2001 is equivalent to nearly $2,900 in 2019. It's been long enough that I've got to think they'll increase the clue values again in the next 2-3 seasons. But first I think J! should bump up the 2nd and 3rd place payouts. $1K especially can make it hard for a contestant to cover her costs.
After James, TPTB might NEVER increase the clue values. He proved the money is there for the taking!

User avatar
TenPoundHammer
Oahu? Wahoo!
Posts: 7465
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:59 pm
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:01 am

Image
Ten Pound Hammer

This space for rent

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4504
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:04 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:03 pm
So we'd been saying that the way James would go down was against a strong player and a weak player so the two competitors weren't dividing the remaining spoils. But it turns out he went down against TWO strong competitors. I think we have to credit Jay with an assist here. He kept the ball away from James and allowed Emma to stay ahead.
I was thinking about this, too. We all thought it would take something exceptional to take James down. Turns out it was just a good old-fashioned, well played Jeopardy! game. James may have been a little off today, but it felt more like Emma--and to a lesser extent Jay--were just very good challengers.

And reading through today's posts it seems like the game was at least partially spoiled here. Who did that and when do the beatings begin? Luckily I was able to avoid being spoiled. I noticed this thread had lots of posts and saw a few headlines, but realized it could either be that James lost or that he went over Jennings' record. I suspected it was the former, but didn't know for sure till watching the game.

a1srvng
Contributor
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:29 pm

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by a1srvng » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:11 am

You know, I just don't get this smart wager theory. Yeah, he locked out the third guy with his bet to lock in what... a GRAND? The guy's won over two mil and he's worried about a grand? This guy has continually preached about playing with house money and he's fiddling over second vs. third? If he bets it all and wins, it's monster bucks. He had no way to lock it up so let the whole bundle fly. If you lose by a buck and the other guy gets second (2K)...mercy! What a disaster! (kidding). If you lose, it's wooden nickels... if you win (I admit, no sure thing), that's a ton of scratch into his pot.... Just sayin'. Go for it and sail off a winner in the minds of everyone, even if you lose.

User avatar
JayK33
Just a Fan
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:10 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by JayK33 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:17 am

Sad to see James go. :(

But, since Emma beat him, she might as well break that "giant killers" curse and go on a good run herself. Let's go for at least five.

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 6550
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:19 am

jpr281 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:23 pm
Jeopardy actually put the entire episode on Youtube.
I would have been so happy if 2 hours later it was flagged by a bot and taken down for copyright violation. :lol:

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1575
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:23 am

a1srvng wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:11 am
You know, I just don't get this smart wager theory. Yeah, he locked out the third guy with his bet to lock in what... a GRAND? The guy's won over two mil and he's worried about a grand? This guy has continually preached about playing with house money and he's fiddling over second vs. third? If he bets it all and wins, it's monster bucks. He had no way to lock it up so let the whole bundle fly. If you lose by a buck and the other guy gets second (2K)...mercy! What a disaster! (kidding). If you lose, it's wooden nickels... if you win (I admit, no sure thing), that's a ton of scratch into his pot.... Just sayin'. Go for it and sail off a winner in the minds of everyone, even if you lose.
You just don't get what the goal of the game is. It is to win, not to have an impressive-looking, yet non-winning, amount displayed on the board just before it turns into $2,000 or $1,000.

a1srvng
Contributor
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:29 pm

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by a1srvng » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 am

"You just don't get what the goal of the game is. It is to win, not to have an impressive-looking, yet non-winning, amount displayed on the board just before it turns into $2,000 or $1,000."

YOU don't get it! If he bets $1399, all of it or NOTHING, if she get's it right, HE LOSES!

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 6550
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:34 am

a1srvng wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:11 am
You know, I just don't get this smart wager theory. Yeah, he locked out the third guy with his bet to lock in what... a GRAND? The guy's won over two mil and he's worried about a grand? This guy has continually preached about playing with house money and he's fiddling over second vs. third? If he bets it all and wins, it's monster bucks. He had no way to lock it up so let the whole bundle fly. If you lose by a buck and the other guy gets second (2K)...mercy! What a disaster! (kidding). If you lose, it's wooden nickels... if you win (I admit, no sure thing), that's a ton of scratch into his pot.... Just sayin'. Go for it and sail off a winner in the minds of everyone, even if you lose.
This isn't about securing second over third. I doubt James took that into consideration at all. He's pretty much guaranteed not to win if Emma gets FJ right. So what should he do? A) Bet to win if Emma misses FJ AND he gets FJ right. B) Bet to win if Emma misses FJ AS LONG AS JAY MISSES FJ TOO. C) Bet to win if Emma misses FJ REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HE GETS FJ RIGHT OR WRONG AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT JAY DOES. You think he should have done A or maybe B. Most of us think he was much smarter to go with C, despite the low statistical likelihood that he was going to miss FJ.

James' FJ bet in this game proves what we knew all along: he wasn't just betting big because he was a high roller who liked to bet big. He was betting big because that was the smart move. And when the smart move was to bet small, that's what he did. His reward is to be criticized by people who can't be bothered to run a few test calculations to see if their criticisms make sense.

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4504
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:36 am

a1srvng wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:11 am
You know, I just don't get this smart wager theory. Yeah, he locked out the third guy with his bet to lock in what... a GRAND? The guy's won over two mil and he's worried about a grand? This guy has continually preached about playing with house money and he's fiddling over second vs. third? If he bets it all and wins, it's monster bucks. He had no way to lock it up so let the whole bundle fly.
So your strategy is to allow the possibility of handing Jay the game on a sole get. This wasn't about second or third, this was about James maximizing his chances of winning.

[edit: looks like I got trumped by the penguin... :D ]

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 6550
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:54 am

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:36 am
a1srvng wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:11 am
You know, I just don't get this smart wager theory. Yeah, he locked out the third guy with his bet to lock in what... a GRAND? The guy's won over two mil and he's worried about a grand? This guy has continually preached about playing with house money and he's fiddling over second vs. third? If he bets it all and wins, it's monster bucks. He had no way to lock it up so let the whole bundle fly.
So your strategy is to allow the possibility of handing Jay the game on a sole get. This wasn't about second or third, this was about James maximizing his chances of winning.

[edit: looks like I got trumped by the penguin... :D ]
Image

AerA
Just Starting Out on JBoard
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:25 am

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AerA » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:54 am

Prizes wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:16 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:26 pm
Robert K S wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:07 pm
Has anyone figured out what James said to Jay during the Final reveals?
Any lip readers want to give it a shot?
"I wish you good luck!"
Close. "I wished you well!"

Hoping to see James come out on top in the ToC. Bad luck on the DDs (in combination with a very strong opponent) lost him the game.

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4504
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:59 am

With all the discussion of the game's outcome there hasn't been much discussion of any of the clues. I got FJ, but had to cross out Chaucer in the final seconds. Marlowe dying young wasn't something that I could dredge up in 30 seconds, but I finally realized Chaucer was unlikely to be the answer to a clue in the category "Shakespeare's Time."

yclept
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:43 am

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:12 am

morbeedo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:51 pm
hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:22 pm
yclept wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:04 pm
Jeopardy likely has its top single day win for eternity unless the dollar amounts change on the clues, which seems highly unlikely.
J! hasn't doubled its clue values since November 2001. $2,000 in 2001 is equivalent to nearly $2,900 in 2019. It's been long enough that I've got to think they'll increase the clue values again in the next 2-3 seasons. But first I think J! should bump up the 2nd and 3rd place payouts. $1K especially can make it hard for a contestant to cover her costs.
After James, TPTB might NEVER increase the clue values. He proved the money is there for the taking!
Plus, Sony runs WOF. Other than the bonus round $1K increases every year, they have done nothing for years to increase wheel values. The $5K space has been there forever. I don’t see them increasing values unless some hot shot game show comes around with supersized prizes, like Millionaire did...

seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 6066
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:17 am

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:04 am
And reading through today's posts it seems like the game was at least partially spoiled here. Who did that and when do the beatings begin? Luckily I was able to avoid being spoiled. I noticed this thread had lots of posts and saw a few headlines, but realized it could either be that James lost or that he went over Jennings' record. I suspected it was the former, but didn't know for sure till watching the game.
I don't mind saying kablamfan11 posted the YouTube leak of this FJ Saturday night/Sunday morning. (To his credit, he promptly deleted the thread when I asked him to over PM.)

Honorable mention goes to floridagator for posting a "James loses" thread about lottery results, which kablamfan11 may have drawn inspiration from, borrowing its title (down to the "(no spoilers)" disclaimer, to my consternation).

User avatar
OrangeSAM
JBOARDIE OF THE MONTH!
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:00 pm

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OrangeSAM » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:18 am

a1srvng wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:11 am
You know, I just don't get this smart wager theory. Yeah, he locked out the third guy with his bet to lock in what... a GRAND? ...
The bet was not about $1k.

It was about closing one avenue to a loss he could control while keeping open the two avenues to a win, which were ultimately out of his control.
OCSam

User avatar
Lefty
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 763
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:49 pm

Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:29 am

This is the first game I've actually watched in some time (thanks for the link, jpr281. And my good friends at Sony, of course). James was very good. I sensed he might have won on another day. I thought he showed great class in defeat, though I had my doubts until the end. I mean, clapping in Emma's direction after DJ might have been taken for gamesmanship by more cynical types. Emma though was very impressive, not least in her demeanor. She clearly didn't come for the AC. Jay was good too. He was kind of like that Aussie guy on the medal stand with Smith and Carlos.

I wonder how many of the contestants got the "he's your friend when things get rough" bit? It didn't help if you did get it, but it might have confused you if you didn't (oh and RIP, Jack Wild). I read where James says he was a bit slow to solve the Albany clue, and felt the game turned on it. A bit of irony there (even if James Stuart was just a duke at the time).

"KIt" Marlowe. I remembered that from the movie, but missed it when applied to Columbus in that LL question.

I don't know whether Alex's Eisenhower impression was any good or not. I'm not old enough to call him "Ike".
I'm smart and I want respect.

Post Reply