Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:39 am

I assume that MB is going to poll for how many got spoiled on this game, if not then consider this a request.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Category 13 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:50 am

ParrotRob wrote:
Hugo Z wrote: Why bet so little in FJ if you've got nothing to gain and nothing to lose? The novelty of it?
He had everything to gain if Emma missed FJ. He had every reason to believe that Emma would bet enough to shut him out, so his only chance of winning was a miss by Emma. With that in mind, he played to guard against a double-up by the middle guy, knowing, correctly, that Emma was unbeatable. He absolutely made the right wager.
Wagering Suggestions:

Jay- Your only hope is if Emma gets it wrong. Don't give a shit what Emma drops to if she wagers to cover James doubling up, just wager everything.

James- You can bet Jay is dumb enough to take the above advice. So just wager 1399 and pray Emma gets it wrong. It's not like you're 31 out of 32 correct on FJ or anything.

Emma- James has won 32 games and over $2.4 million, so you can be confident he will absolutely make the right wager. Wager between zero and 1799 and enjoy your victory.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Category 13 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:58 am

Golf wrote:
polaris wrote: Anyways, I get that in theory, he made the right wager, and also in practice it was the right wager, but I have a question for the vikings: could a wager of $11,399 (to stay above Jay's DJ score) or even $7,799 (to stay above Jay's score if he wagers at most $4,600 which is the right move for him) be justified? I just hate the thought of allowing the leader to win with a $0 wager when I could have stopped it (I would hate to find myself between 2/3 and 3/4 of the leaders total), I respect James for having the balls to hold himself to $1,399; I don't know if I could do it.
My first thought was no way could it be justified. But then again, with his 97% get rate on FJ combined with the fact that third should (in theory, but few contestants understand this) not wager everything, it probably should be at least considered. Another reason would be this, James will always wager optimally, which means Emma can wager $0 and win regardless.

I hate second level thinking on Jeopardy because contestants are typically so sub-optimal when it comes to wagering. It is just useless. But in this case.....

This is why the best poker players always balance their ranges, if you always bet in the same manner, even if it's optimal, you can be exploited. James could have easily been exploited in FJ.
The more I read of this thread, the more I wish Emma had wagered 1,799 or less.
I'm still waiting for someone to make the percentage pitch that if James gets it wrong, then the likelyhood of Jay also being wrong is great enough to warrant the larger wager from James.
Polaris, excellent first post. It took this thread to page 5 for someone to offer a reasonable counter point to James' venusian wager.
I had him written down for 12,398 initially, then fine tuned it to 7,799.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by JayK33 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:17 am

harrumph wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:39 am
I assume that MB is going to poll for how many got spoiled on this game, if not then consider this a request.
I'm down for that. I'd be in the "Yes" box for that one. But disappointing to see it come true either way.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CasketRomance » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:28 am

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:59 am
With all the discussion of the game's outcome there hasn't been much discussion of any of the clues. I got FJ, but had to cross out Chaucer in the final seconds. Marlowe dying young wasn't something that I could dredge up in 30 seconds, but I finally realized Chaucer was unlikely to be the answer to a clue in the category "Shakespeare's Time."
i went with chaucer...was the only dude from that era i could name...never heard of that marlowe guy

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:00 am

harrumph wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:39 am
I assume that MB is going to poll for how many got spoiled on this game, if not then consider this a request.
It'll depend on the wording which box I check. I didn't see any hard spoilers, so I didn't KNOW. I just saw a few hints from people who probably thought they were being clever and sufficiently oblique.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:05 am

seaborgium wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:17 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:04 am
And reading through today's posts it seems like the game was at least partially spoiled here. Who did that and when do the beatings begin? Luckily I was able to avoid being spoiled. I noticed this thread had lots of posts and saw a few headlines, but realized it could either be that James lost or that he went over Jennings' record. I suspected it was the former, but didn't know for sure till watching the game.
I don't mind saying kablamfan11 posted the YouTube leak of this FJ Saturday night/Sunday morning. (To his credit, he promptly deleted the thread when I asked him to over PM.)

Honorable mention goes to floridagator for posting a "James loses" thread about lottery results, which kablamfan11 may have drawn inspiration from, borrowing its title (down to the "(no spoilers)" disclaimer, to my consternation).
I didn't see the kablamfan11 leak. And I don't think floridagator's post contributed to my suspicion that James would lose tonight. Maybe. There are at least two other comments that were made by boardies that I know for sure made me suspect they had some advance knowledge. I'm not interested in scolding anyone by name (plus, for one of the comments I can't even remember which boardie made it) so I'll leave it there.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:15 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:05 am
seaborgium wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:17 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:04 am
And reading through today's posts it seems like the game was at least partially spoiled here. Who did that and when do the beatings begin? Luckily I was able to avoid being spoiled. I noticed this thread had lots of posts and saw a few headlines, but realized it could either be that James lost or that he went over Jennings' record. I suspected it was the former, but didn't know for sure till watching the game.
I don't mind saying kablamfan11 posted the YouTube leak of this FJ Saturday night/Sunday morning. (To his credit, he promptly deleted the thread when I asked him to over PM.)

Honorable mention goes to floridagator for posting a "James loses" thread about lottery results, which kablamfan11 may have drawn inspiration from, borrowing its title (down to the "(no spoilers)" disclaimer, to my consternation).
I didn't see the kablamfan11 leak. And I don't think floridagator's post contributed to my suspicion that James would lose tonight. Maybe. There are at least two other comments that were made by boardies that I know for sure made me suspect they had some advance knowledge. I'm not interested in scolding anyone by name (plus, for one of the comments I can't even remember which boardie made it) so I'll leave it there.
People got pretty egregious in the thread speculating about the fact that an article said James had just come back from vacation, then clarified that J! is on taping hiatus. I assume that's where you saw the remarks you speak of. Floridagator's post was just a dumb clickbait joke made a week ago, but the fact that the spoiler video's thread had a very similar title makes me imagine kablamfan11 was a little more willing to post the spoiler because of floridagator's thread. (That thread was removed a little after the real spoiler thread to help prevent anyone blabbing spoilers, but Google's cache is still available.)

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:17 am

seaborgium wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:15 am
opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:05 am
seaborgium wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:17 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:04 am
And reading through today's posts it seems like the game was at least partially spoiled here. Who did that and when do the beatings begin? Luckily I was able to avoid being spoiled. I noticed this thread had lots of posts and saw a few headlines, but realized it could either be that James lost or that he went over Jennings' record. I suspected it was the former, but didn't know for sure till watching the game.
I don't mind saying kablamfan11 posted the YouTube leak of this FJ Saturday night/Sunday morning. (To his credit, he promptly deleted the thread when I asked him to over PM.)

Honorable mention goes to floridagator for posting a "James loses" thread about lottery results, which kablamfan11 may have drawn inspiration from, borrowing its title (down to the "(no spoilers)" disclaimer, to my consternation).
I didn't see the kablamfan11 leak. And I don't think floridagator's post contributed to my suspicion that James would lose tonight. Maybe. There are at least two other comments that were made by boardies that I know for sure made me suspect they had some advance knowledge. I'm not interested in scolding anyone by name (plus, for one of the comments I can't even remember which boardie made it) so I'll leave it there.
Floridagator's post was just a dumb clickbait joke made a week ago,
Yes, that's right. Just a little fun to break the ennui coming out of the long weekend. I had no knowledge of when James would actually lose (and as of the weekend, I still would have added, "if ever.") I even included "(NO SPOILER)" in the thread title to make it obvious that it was a joke, because if it did contain actual information about James losing, that would have been a maximum spoiler.

I was only semi-spoiled for Monday's game. I had mostly read the thread about a possible breach of confidentiality suggesting that James would be the reigning champ at season's end. Then some people suggested on that thread that James would lose tomorrow. I watched yesterday's game with eager anticipation, staying home to actually watch it as it aired (a thing pretty rare for me). I would have been OK with James either losing or breaking Ken's money record, but I would have been steamed if neither had happened and it was just a typical James smackdown.

https://imgur.com/qM9vilD
Last edited by floridagator on Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:26 am

kingskip wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:42 am
I just hate he had to lose when he was so close to beating Ken Jennings cash earnings record. One or two more wins, he would have passed him. Even more unusual, his loss comes one day after the fifteenth anniversary of Ken’s first game and the fifth anniversary of Julia’s loss. Hopefully James will win the Tournament of Champions in November. Even better, I’d like to see another three month Ultimate Tournament of Champions with the two final games being James, Ken, and Brad.
I wonder if I'll ever live to see the day when the latest great champ doesn't have to be matched up against the great champs of bygone years. Even if James were to win such a super-matchup, the question would still remain unanswered as to whether James would have beaten either/both of them 15-20 years ago in their J! primes.

I'll look forward to seeing James in the next ToC. Then we can all move on to the next thing.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by dhkendall » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:38 am

Something else occurred to me:

Ken was defeated *just* shy of the all time record of number of consecutive wins on a game show (which I believe was 75 but I can’t remember what show)

James was defeated *just* shy of the regular play money record.

And there’s people who say both didn’t want those records and lost on purpose. :roll:
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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by sarisson » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:58 am

This was the greatest game ever played. Is $53,200 the highest combined Coryat ever? I think it is, and it may be an unbreakable record.
Another unbreakable record: 27 correct FJ's in a row. I know there are boardies who have attained longer streaks from their living rooms, but being able to do that in the studio is something else.
I think Ken's run had a greater impact because his 74 wins completely shattered the old record of 7, and the win cap had just been lifted the previous year. Since then, we've seen some contestants with huge average winnings (Runsvold, Rogers) and long streaks, and other contestants have used strategies similar to James's. James didn't break the game or do anything we haven't seen before; he just played extremely well all the time.
In for a second lap

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:01 am

This may be the longest thread I've ever seen for a regular-season game. And IMHO far too little of it has been given to Emma, who deserves to be the star here. Even if she had been playing against 1-game winner Joe Schmo, her play was as solid and first-rate as you could ever hope for from a J! player. This was a truly great game to watch, and much of that is that she did exactly what she had to do strategically to win, and backed it up with great buzzer work and great knowledge base. Many congrats to Emma on a splendid game! And I certainly have a hard time seeing her as Nancy Zerg 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised to see her run off a nice string of wins of her own.

My second reaction is that I'm so glad I don't pay attention to a lot of social media (I usually spend my days living my life). The very idea that people would broadcast the result of this game hours in advance, just so that they can say they "got the scoop" or whatever, is just appalling. I watched this game the way I watch a good NFL playoff game, not knowing the results in advance and able to enjoy the back-and-forth of the game. All of those people out there who enjoy spoiling things like this, A Pox on All Your Houses!

Third (pardon my ignorance): what the hell is "Kit" Marlowe? I' know who Marlowe was, read some of his work in college, even came up with "Who was Marlowe?" for this FJ. Is "Kit" some nickname I've just never heard of? And what's up with including that name in the answer, James? (OTOH, I WAS super-impressed with the get on myelin.)

Fourth, as someone also still in the J! contestant pool (at least for the rest of this year) I'm also relieved to know I won't have to face him. So there's that.

Best of luck to Emma in her championship defense tonight.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Leander » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:08 am

John Boy wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:01 am


Third (pardon my ignorance): what the hell is "Kip" Marlowe? I' know who Marlowe was, read some of his work in college, even came up with "Who was Marlowe?" for this FJ. Is "Kip" some nickname I've just never heard of? Was Marlowe, unbeknownst to us, secretly Kenyan? And what's up with including that name in the answer, James? (OTOH, I WAS super-impressed with the get on myelin.)
The playwright’s first name is Christopher. A short form of Christopher (old fashioned, I guess), is “Kit”, which is what James wrote.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:15 am

John Boy wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:26 am
I wonder if I'll ever live to see the day when the latest great champ doesn't have to be matched up against the great champs of bygone years.
Never going to happen. And unlike when this is done with pro sports, you can't say they're playing different games (e.g., Ruth era baseball different from Trout era baseball)

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by RobinMSwartz » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:05 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:15 pm
RobinMSwartz wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:39 pm
When Jane Pauley interviewed Alex for "CBS Sunday Morning" for a segment that aired May 12, she asked him: "When you recorded the 'Jeopardy!' segments featuring James, was that before you had your diagnosis?" His reply: "Some of it was before, and some of it was after."

My head jerked up and my wife and I looked at each other with big eyes. I said, "He loses before the end of the season." It was only a matter of time. The spoilers were there if we were looking for them.
How did you come to that conclusion?
If you watch the clip, he chose his words carefully. If he was still playing, he easily could have answered, "He started playing before my diagnosis." He clearly offered a beginning and end to the story.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:15 pm

59 R (Daily Double #3 was my only miss.)
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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 pm

floridagator wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:17 am
I was only semi-spoiled for Monday's game. I had mostly read the thread about a possible breach of confidentiality suggesting that James would be the reigning champ at season's end. Then some people suggested on that thread that James would lose tomorrow. I watched yesterday's game with eager anticipation, staying home to actually watch it as it aired (a thing pretty rare for me). I would have been OK with James either losing or breaking Ken's money record, but I would have been steamed if neither had happened and it was just a typical James smackdown.
Sunday, I posted in the breach of confidentiality thread that the NY Post was reporting James would lose on Monday. I first posted without the spoiler tag but then quickly added it. After the first boardie quoted my post, I had an oops moment and thought I should delete it, but then people kept commenting and soon enough the mod locked the thread. I'm sorry if I ruined it for anyone, but if you didn't want to be spoiled, why would you go read a breach of confidentiality thread? ;)

As for Kit Marlowe - no doubt James has the trivia chops but why even put a first name when you don't need it and you might make an unforced error?

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:42 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:34 am

This isn't about securing second over third. I doubt James took that into consideration at all. He's pretty much guaranteed not to win if Emma gets FJ right. So what should he do? A) Bet to win if Emma misses FJ AND he gets FJ right. B) Bet to win if Emma misses FJ AS LONG AS JAY MISSES FJ TOO. C) Bet to win if Emma misses FJ REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HE GETS FJ RIGHT OR WRONG AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT JAY DOES. You think he should have done A or maybe B. Most of us think he was much smarter to go with C, despite the low statistical likelihood that he was going to miss FJ.

James' FJ bet in this game proves what we knew all along: he wasn't just betting big because he was a high roller who liked to bet big. He was betting big because that was the smart move. And when the smart move was to bet small, that's what he did. His reward is to be criticized by people who can't be bothered to run a few test calculations to see if their criticisms make sense.
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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mgiusto » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm

ParrotRob wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:52 am
Hugo Z wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:01 am
Why bet so little in FJ if you've got nothing to gain and nothing to lose? The novelty of it?
He had everything to gain if Emma missed FJ. He had every reason to believe that Emma would bet enough to shut him out, so his only chance of winning was a miss by Emma. With that in mind, he played to guard against a double-up by the middle guy, knowing, correctly, that Emma was unbeatable. He absolutely made the right wager.
If Emma had known more about James' betting background and tendencies, she could have known what James needed to bet to cover Jay answering correctly and both Her and James answering incorrectly and thus not bet anything and still won the game whether she got the FJ right or wrong.

Alas she didn't calculate this and instead bet what she needed cover James doubling. You can't really blame her though, she's up there with seconds to decide her bet and did the normal FJ bet anyone else in her position would have made. But if she got it wrong, she would have cost herself a win and a bet of zero would have still won.

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