Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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gnash
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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:45 pm

RobinMSwartz wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:05 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:15 pm
RobinMSwartz wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:39 pm
When Jane Pauley interviewed Alex for "CBS Sunday Morning" for a segment that aired May 12, she asked him: "When you recorded the 'Jeopardy!' segments featuring James, was that before you had your diagnosis?" His reply: "Some of it was before, and some of it was after."

My head jerked up and my wife and I looked at each other with big eyes. I said, "He loses before the end of the season." It was only a matter of time. The spoilers were there if we were looking for them.
How did you come to that conclusion?
If you watch the clip, he chose his words carefully. If he was still playing, he easily could have answered, "He started playing before my diagnosis." He clearly offered a beginning and end to the story.
Either you misquoted him or you are misinterpreting his statement. There's no information re: end of James' run, one way or another, explicit or implicit, contained in those words.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by squarekara » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:49 pm

morbeedo wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 pm
As for Kit Marlowe - no doubt James has the trivia chops but why even put a first name when you don't need it and you might make an unforced error?
I interpreted that as hanging on the rim. Nice lagniappe anyway.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:50 pm

Leander wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:08 am
John Boy wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:01 am


Third (pardon my ignorance): what the hell is "Kip" Marlowe? I' know who Marlowe was, read some of his work in college, even came up with "Who was Marlowe?" for this FJ. Is "Kip" some nickname I've just never heard of? Was Marlowe, unbeknownst to us, secretly Kenyan? And what's up with including that name in the answer, James? (OTOH, I WAS super-impressed with the get on myelin.)
The playwright’s first name is Christopher. A short form of Christopher (old fashioned, I guess), is “Kit”, which is what James wrote.
See also: Kit Carson.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woof » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:51 pm

Leander wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:08 am
John Boy wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:01 am


Third (pardon my ignorance): what the hell is "Kip" Marlowe? I' know who Marlowe was, read some of his work in college, even came up with "Who was Marlowe?" for this FJ. Is "Kip" some nickname I've just never heard of? Was Marlowe, unbeknownst to us, secretly Kenyan? And what's up with including that name in the answer, James? (OTOH, I WAS super-impressed with the get on myelin.)
The playwright’s first name is Christopher. A short form of Christopher (old fashioned, I guess), is “Kit”, which is what James wrote.
Fun related fact: the original name of the island St. Kitts was St. Christopher.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:54 pm

mgiusto wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm
If Emma had known more about James' betting background and tendencies, she could have known what James needed to bet to cover Jay answering correctly and both Her and James answering incorrectly and thus not bet anything and still won the game whether she got the FJ right or wrong.

Alas she didn't calculate this and instead bet what she needed cover James doubling. You can't really blame her though, she's up there with seconds to decide her bet and did the normal FJ bet anyone else in her position would have made. But if she got it wrong, she would have cost herself a win and a bet of zero would have still won.
Put yourself in Emma's place. What probability are you assigning to James betting as he did, betting the difference between then +$1, betting double the difference +$1, betting all, and betting something else, and based on what?

Now repeat the exercise with the information based on watching James play 32 previous games (which Emma did not have).

Emma is well-prepared. She probably scores 75% or more on FJs. She did her undergraduate thesis on Shakespeare. She's got to expect more than 80% of getting the FJ right.

Your assumptions have to be pretty wild not to recommend the standard cover bet.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by pinkfreud » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:26 pm

CasketRomance wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:28 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:59 am
With all the discussion of the game's outcome there hasn't been much discussion of any of the clues. I got FJ, but had to cross out Chaucer in the final seconds. Marlowe dying young wasn't something that I could dredge up in 30 seconds, but I finally realized Chaucer was unlikely to be the answer to a clue in the category "Shakespeare's Time."
i went with chaucer...was the only dude from that era i could name...never heard of that marlowe guy
I don't see any negbait here. Chaucer was born in the 14th Century (during the Middle Ages) and wrote in Middle English. Shakespeare was born in the 16th Century (during the Renaissance), and wrote in Early Modern English. These are distinctly different eras.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:33 pm

pinkfreud wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:26 pm
CasketRomance wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:28 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:59 am
With all the discussion of the game's outcome there hasn't been much discussion of any of the clues. I got FJ, but had to cross out Chaucer in the final seconds. Marlowe dying young wasn't something that I could dredge up in 30 seconds, but I finally realized Chaucer was unlikely to be the answer to a clue in the category "Shakespeare's Time."
i went with chaucer...was the only dude from that era i could name...never heard of that marlowe guy
I don't see any negbait here. Chaucer was born in the 14th Century (during the Middle Ages) and wrote in Middle English. Shakespeare was born in the 16th Century (during the Renaissance), and wrote in Early Modern English. These are distinctly different eras.
Not really negbait, more just "how many other well-known, probably British authors, are there from that era or before?" The only ones that come to mind for me are Chaucer, Spenser, Malory, and Marlowe with Chaucer clearly being the most famous. Remembering the category being "Shakespeare's Time" probably eliminates Chaucer and Malory.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CasketRomance » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:15 pm

pinkfreud wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:26 pm
CasketRomance wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:28 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:59 am
With all the discussion of the game's outcome there hasn't been much discussion of any of the clues. I got FJ, but had to cross out Chaucer in the final seconds. Marlowe dying young wasn't something that I could dredge up in 30 seconds, but I finally realized Chaucer was unlikely to be the answer to a clue in the category "Shakespeare's Time."
i went with chaucer...was the only dude from that era i could name...never heard of that marlowe guy
I don't see any negbait here. Chaucer was born in the 14th Century (during the Middle Ages) and wrote in Middle English. Shakespeare was born in the 16th Century (during the Renaissance), and wrote in Early Modern English. These are distinctly different eras.
yeah that sounds about right...but i know nothing about literature from 500 years ago...couldn't have told you if they were around the same era or not

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:16 pm

morbeedo wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 pm
Sunday, I posted in the breach of confidentiality thread that the NY Post was reporting James would lose on Monday. I first posted without the spoiler tag but then quickly added it. After the first boardie quoted my post, I had an oops moment and thought I should delete it, but then people kept commenting and soon enough the mod locked the thread. I'm sorry if I ruined it for anyone, but if you didn't want to be spoiled, why would you go read a breach of confidentiality thread? ;)
I didn't. The very EXISTENCE of a breach of confidentiality thread suggested that something was up. Combine that with a few other comments that might have been mostly innocuous on their own in other threads and my penguin sense was tingling. All that left me with the suspicion on Monday that: a) something big is happening soon, b) probably today, and c) it's obvious what that thing is.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CasketRomance » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:17 pm

morbeedo wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:32 pm
floridagator wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:17 am
I was only semi-spoiled for Monday's game. I had mostly read the thread about a possible breach of confidentiality suggesting that James would be the reigning champ at season's end. Then some people suggested on that thread that James would lose tomorrow. I watched yesterday's game with eager anticipation, staying home to actually watch it as it aired (a thing pretty rare for me). I would have been OK with James either losing or breaking Ken's money record, but I would have been steamed if neither had happened and it was just a typical James smackdown.
Sunday, I posted in the breach of confidentiality thread that the NY Post was reporting James would lose on Monday. I first posted without the spoiler tag but then quickly added it. After the first boardie quoted my post, I had an oops moment and thought I should delete it, but then people kept commenting and soon enough the mod locked the thread. I'm sorry if I ruined it for anyone, but if you didn't want to be spoiled, why would you go read a breach of confidentiality thread? ;)

As for Kit Marlowe - no doubt James has the trivia chops but why even put a first name when you don't need it and you might make an unforced error?
he rarely, if ever, used only a last name when answering a clue throughout his run

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:20 pm

After reading all of the rambling here, one thing I can comment on is that I managed to be well and truly unspoiled. I didn't check this board over the weekend, only taking the weekly FJ poll on Friday night Monday morning. (Edit - looks like I took the poll on Monday, not Friday. Still, I didn't notice any spoilers and didn't read anything other than the poll thread.)

It took me a long time to warm up to James. His on-air personality could easily be off-putting to some, including me. But like the athletes he wagers on for a living, that was his game face. He's not there to have a good time, he's there to win. What finally pushed me over the edge was his reaction to his loss. He immediately congratulated Emma on her win - and it sure looked sincere to me. He was finally able to set aside his game face and become a fan of the game again. I also suspect he appreciated Emma's knowledge and approach to the game. She played well and adapted quickly to James' novel game play. I'm sure he's doing a bunch of interviews today now that his loss has aired. I'll have to see if he comes across as a more amiable guy away from the game.

As to the suggestion that James threw the game, all I can say is horsefeathers! One overriding feature of James' play is his cold logic. If he were growing tired of the game and wanted to end it, why end it on the first taping of the day? You've already committed to being there all day, why not add 4 more games' worth of winnings before throwing the game on the last game of the day? That maximizes both the utility of the day and the benefit of losing.

It might be interesting to go back and see how often James was the first to ring in. I'm sure it's going to be impressive, but I wonder if this game was out of the ordinary on that front. When other players are first, there's maybe a 10% or so chance they'll answer incorrectly, giving James the opportunity to get the rebound. That both drops the other player's score and adds to James - effectively doubling the point value for James vs. that player. In this game, there was only one incorrect response, and that coming almost at the end when it didn't matter. Combine that with no opportunity to make a sizeable DD wager and you've got the formula for beating James.
Last edited by Peter the accountant on Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:33 pm

John Boy wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:01 am
Third (pardon my ignorance): what the hell is "Kit" Marlowe? I' know who Marlowe was, read some of his work in college, even came up with "Who was Marlowe?" for this FJ. Is "Kit" some nickname I've just never heard of? And what's up with including that name in the answer, James?
The nickname is so common and well known that Wikipedia has a page with that address:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kit_Marlowe

It directs to the same page as Christopher Marlowe and the first words of the article are "Christopher Marlowe, also known as Kit Marlowe". Including the nickname was a bit show-offy--"hanging on the rim" as SquareKara neatly put it--but hardly a risk.

There probably won't be a box to check, so I'll mention here that my response to this FJ was the same as James's: "Who is Kit Marlowe?" It just seemed like a fun thing to throw in. In a real game, out of an abundance of caution, I might have stuck with just the last name. But I was tickled to see that James went for it.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:37 pm

Peter the accountant wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:20 pm
As to the suggestion that James threw the game, all I can say is horsefeathers! One overriding feature of James' play is his cold logic. If he were growing tired of the game and wanted to end it, why end it on the first taping of the day? You've already committed to being there all day, why not add 4 more games' worth of winnings before throwing the game on the last game of the day? That maximizes both the utility of the day and the benefit of losing.
Maybe he wanted another free trip to L.A.? "Daddy's got to take care of some business, but then we'll go Disneyland, ok pumpkin?" :D

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:47 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:33 pm
The nickname is so common and well known that Wikipedia has a page with that address:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kit_Marlowe
According to the edit history for that page, a playwright named David Grimm even wrote a play called Kit Marlowe.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:44 pm

Robert K S wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:47 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:33 pm
The nickname is so common and well known that Wikipedia has a page with that address:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kit_Marlowe
According to the edit history for that page, a playwright named David Grimm even wrote a play called Kit Marlowe.
And wasn't that loosely the basis for the show Knight Rider, or am I misremembering?

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:03 pm

You're thinking Disney's Talespin, common mistake

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Shaquebanisa » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:10 pm

Coryat: $39,800

44 R (2 DDs), 1 W

FJ—Yes

Missed on NIXON $600, said JFK instead of Eisenhower.
Missed "deep state"
Also did not get the lone "cigarette" TS.

Even before all the rumors were floating around, I had a feeling he would lose shy of the record, in the same way Julia Collins lost when she was $2,000 shy of surpassing David Madden, and Austin Rogers lost just $600 shy of surpassing Matt Jackson. Well, in any case, well done to James, and well done to Emma. I had no idea who would eventually take him down, or how.

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:08 pm

econgator wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:50 pm
See also: Kit Carson.
I remove that name because they asked who the capital of Nevada was named after in a $200 box, then gave a BMS on just "Carson", followed by silence and a TS. I would say that was the least necessary BMS ever.
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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CyrusChan » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:31 pm

ParrotRob wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:39 am
What's hilarious is watching all the Twittiots saying he made the wrong FJ wager and that's why he, uh, finished where he did.
I saw that too. Laughed all so many who forget there's a third player. HAHA

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Re: Monday, June 3, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:52 pm

CyrusChan wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:31 pm
ParrotRob wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:39 am
What's hilarious is watching all the Twittiots saying he made the wrong FJ wager and that's why he, uh, finished where he did.
I saw that too. Laughed all so many who forget there's a third player. HAHA
The USA's worldwide math standing just keeps dropping further and further...

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