Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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davey
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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am

AugieDB wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:24 pm
As someone who runs a site dedicated to reviewing Franco-Belgian comics, I'm siding with those who heard Emma say "Asterisk," which is definitely wrong.

The French version of the name has a different accent, but only in that the "I" sounds more like a long "E". So it's not an accent issue, either. She just said the wrong word.
........
-Augie
The (lack of) accent is partly why it's hard to be certain what she said, since she uses a short, American i and not a French i, making the word sound much like asteris(k). But I hear a strong s sound at the end - if it's followed by a k it's lightly voiced. She gets my benefit of the doubt.

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Mathew5000
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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Mathew5000 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am

davey wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:32 pm
If she mistook Asterix for an asterisk she didn't hit the k very hard. It sounds more like Asteriss to me - not much of a French accent, but an acceptable response...
davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am
The (lack of) accent is partly why it's hard to be certain what she said, since she uses a short, American i and not a French i, making the word sound much like asteris(k). But I hear a strong s sound at the end - if it's followed by a k it's lightly voiced. She gets my benefit of the doubt.
How is it an acceptable response if she omitted the "k" sound? In both English and French, the x at the end of Astérix is pronounced "ks". Some examples of the French pronunciation:

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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 am

Mathew5000 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am
davey wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:32 pm
If she mistook Asterix for an asterisk she didn't hit the k very hard. It sounds more like Asteriss to me - not much of a French accent, but an acceptable response...
davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am
The (lack of) accent is partly why it's hard to be certain what she said, since she uses a short, American i and not a French i, making the word sound much like asteris(k). But I hear a strong s sound at the end - if it's followed by a k it's lightly voiced. She gets my benefit of the doubt.
How is it an acceptable response if she omitted the "k" sound? In both English and French, the x at the end of Astérix is pronounced "ks".
There's no requirement to pronounce a word properly. Pronouncing an x as an s is common. In French, the word six, for example...

Addendum-
According to some sites I consulted, including this one
https://www.lawlessfrench.com/pronunciation/x/
only the numbers in French end with the s sound for x. I didn't realize that. However, that doesn't change the fact that J! doesn't require players to know all the pronunciation rules, especially not those of another language...

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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:07 pm

davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 am
Mathew5000 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am
davey wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:32 pm
If she mistook Asterix for an asterisk she didn't hit the k very hard. It sounds more like Asteriss to me - not much of a French accent, but an acceptable response...
davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am
The (lack of) accent is partly why it's hard to be certain what she said, since she uses a short, American i and not a French i, making the word sound much like asteris(k). But I hear a strong s sound at the end - if it's followed by a k it's lightly voiced. She gets my benefit of the doubt.
How is it an acceptable response if she omitted the "k" sound? In both English and French, the x at the end of Astérix is pronounced "ks".
There's no requirement to pronounce a word properly. Pronouncing an x as an s is common. In French, the word six, for example...

Addendum-
According to some sites I consulted, including this one
https://www.lawlessfrench.com/pronunciation/x/
only the numbers in French end with the s sound for x. I didn't realize that.
I've heard "Alix" as the French form of "Alice," and I understand it to be pronounced like "Elise."

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econgator
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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:50 pm

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:07 pm
davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 am
Mathew5000 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am
davey wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:32 pm
If she mistook Asterix for an asterisk she didn't hit the k very hard. It sounds more like Asteriss to me - not much of a French accent, but an acceptable response...
davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am
The (lack of) accent is partly why it's hard to be certain what she said, since she uses a short, American i and not a French i, making the word sound much like asteris(k). But I hear a strong s sound at the end - if it's followed by a k it's lightly voiced. She gets my benefit of the doubt.
How is it an acceptable response if she omitted the "k" sound? In both English and French, the x at the end of Astérix is pronounced "ks".
There's no requirement to pronounce a word properly. Pronouncing an x as an s is common. In French, the word six, for example...

Addendum-
According to some sites I consulted, including this one
https://www.lawlessfrench.com/pronunciation/x/
only the numbers in French end with the s sound for x. I didn't realize that.
I've heard "Alix" as the French form of "Alice," and I understand it to be pronounced like "Elise."
I've only heard it pronounced with the terminal 'x' sound, but you may well be correct, too. I know in Spanish it can have that sound (there's a MotoGP rider named Aleix Espargaro and his first name is pronounces like 'Alayse').

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gnash
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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:10 pm

davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 am
Mathew5000 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am
davey wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:32 pm
If she mistook Asterix for an asterisk she didn't hit the k very hard. It sounds more like Asteriss to me - not much of a French accent, but an acceptable response...
davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am
The (lack of) accent is partly why it's hard to be certain what she said, since she uses a short, American i and not a French i, making the word sound much like asteris(k). But I hear a strong s sound at the end - if it's followed by a k it's lightly voiced. She gets my benefit of the doubt.
How is it an acceptable response if she omitted the "k" sound? In both English and French, the x at the end of Astérix is pronounced "ks".
There's no requirement to pronounce a word properly. Pronouncing an x as an s is common. In French, the word six, for example...
Yes, but it has to be a plausible pronunciation. There is no word in English or French in which "x" is pronounced "sk".

You are overthinking this. It was a clear case of saying the wrong word. One of which is, in fact, a wordplay based on the other, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.

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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:39 pm

gnash wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:10 pm
davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 am
Mathew5000 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am
davey wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:32 pm
If she mistook Asterix for an asterisk she didn't hit the k very hard. It sounds more like Asteriss to me - not much of a French accent, but an acceptable response...
davey wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am
The (lack of) accent is partly why it's hard to be certain what she said, since she uses a short, American i and not a French i, making the word sound much like asteris(k). But I hear a strong s sound at the end - if it's followed by a k it's lightly voiced. She gets my benefit of the doubt.
How is it an acceptable response if she omitted the "k" sound? In both English and French, the x at the end of Astérix is pronounced "ks".
There's no requirement to pronounce a word properly. Pronouncing an x as an s is common. In French, the word six, for example...
Yes, but it has to be a plausible pronunciation. There is no word in English or French in which "x" is pronounced "sk".

You are overthinking this. It was a clear case of saying the wrong word. One of which is, in fact, a wordplay based on the other, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.
No, I'm saying - for the 4th time now - that there's no k on the end of the word as she says it. If there is, it's not clearly enunciated. Had it been clear to the judges, she would have been ruled against. The s is very clear.

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Mathew5000
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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Mathew5000 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:43 am

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:07 pm
I've heard "Alix" as the French form of "Alice," and I understand it to be pronounced like "Elise."
I believe Alix is pronounced in French with a concluding "ks" sound, as in these videos:
youtube.com/watch?v=athqxgaC9Pw
youtube.com/watch?v=2VDvK0Bgzqk&t=75 (at timecode 1:20)
youtube.com/watch?v=utQEp8Fugu4&t=58 (at timecodes 0:01:00 and 1:00:30)

Also I wouldn't say Alix is the French form of Alice, because in French Alice is much more common than Alix.

Even if she said something like "Asteriss" with no "k" sound, it's not exactly a "plausible pronunciation" to say most of the word as in English, and then the final letter as in a few irregularly-pronounced French words. But I acknowledge Davey's argument; we can agree to disagree.

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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:55 am

Mathew5000 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:43 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:07 pm
I've heard "Alix" as the French form of "Alice," and I understand it to be pronounced like "Elise."
I believe Alix is pronounced in French with a concluding "ks" sound, as in these videos:
youtube.com/watch?v=athqxgaC9Pw
youtube.com/watch?v=2VDvK0Bgzqk&t=75 (at timecode 1:20)
youtube.com/watch?v=utQEp8Fugu4&t=58 (at timecodes 0:01:00 and 1:00:30)

Also I wouldn't say Alix is the French form of Alice, because in French Alice is much more common than Alix.

Even if she said something like "Asteriss" with no "k" sound, it's not exactly a "plausible pronunciation" to say most of the word as in English, and then the final letter as in a few irregularly-pronounced French words. But I acknowledge Davey's argument; we can agree to disagree.
Alix Spiegel of NPR pronounces her name like "Elise"; I guess I was going entirely off that.

Yes, agree to disagree on the last point.

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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:18 am

For those who want to play along at home, here's Emma giving the debated response at normal, half, and quarter speeds:


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gnash
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Re: Thursday, June 6, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:10 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:18 am
For those who want to play along at home, here's Emma giving the debated response at normal, half, and quarter speeds:

Without listening to this, I will say this as a matter of general principle: much like with video review of red-card or PK offenses in soccer, but even more so, listening to speech at different speed is not helpful in discerning what was said, because it distorts the perception. Think Laurel/Yanny.

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