TPH's FJ! analysis

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TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:01 pm

As someone hoping to get the call after an audition, I was trying to figure out how to improve my abysmal FJ! batting average. So I took a look at every FJ! since May 1 to see what my biggest pitfall is:

May 1: (Death) Instaget
May 2: (The Glass Menagerie) Title was familiar, but had no idea what it actually was
May 3: (Crowdfunding) I know the term and its meaning, but couldn't make heads or tails of the clue; even after the reveal it didn't seem to fit

May 6: (Robert Frost) I know the name, I know the poem, I know "two roads diverged..." but I never matched it to an author
May 7: (Annie Sullivan) I know who she is, but she's not stored under "teacher" in my brain so I couldn't pull the name
May 8: (Security blanket) Strangely I insta-got this one when almost everyone else seemed to struggle.
May 9: (NATO/Warsaw Pact) War facts bore me to tears, so I had nothing.
May 10: (Maine) Had to think about it, but my love of maps made me remember that Maine used to be part of Massachusetts.

May 13: (Miles Standish) I know the name but not who they are or where they're from.
May 14: (Sandra Day O'Connor) Same.
May 15: (Stravinsky) Same
May 16: (Alex Haley) Clue seemed like a word salad and I had no idea where to begin.
May 17: (National Geographic) Had no idea what to even guess.

May 20: (Emile Zola) See May 13.
May 21: (Glory) NHOI.
May 22: (Virginia) Instaget
May 23: (Take the "A" Train) Familiar title, just couldn't access it.
May 24: (Sun Valley) Not an instaget, but some thinking got me there.

May 27: (Game of Life) Instaget
May 28: (SpongeBob SquarePants) Instaget
May 29: (Frankenstein) Just didn't see any TOM.
May 30: (Austria) Bit on the Germany negbait.
May 31: (Newman) I know Randy Newman but not the others.

June 3: (Kit Marlowe) NHOI
June 4: (Spain) Absolutely no guess, didn't realize Spain had anything to do with Nazi Germany
June 5: (X-Ray) Thought X in the NATO alphabet was xylophone and had nothing.
June 6: (Woody Guthrie) Didn't know that he also sang. All I had was "not Dylan"
June 7: (Regina) Couldn't decode the TOMs since Victoria and Albert were leading me nowhere.

June 10: (Death of a Salesman) I know the play but the words didn't lead me anywhere.
June 11: (Taj Mahal) Couldn't decode the TOMs.
June 12: (View-Master) Instaget
June 13: (glitch) Picked the right synonym somehow.
June 14: (smallpox) No guess at all.

June 17: (Salem) Instaget
June 18: (Queen Victoria) No guess
June 19: (Iliad) No guess
June 20: (Benjamin Franklin) Didn't see any TOMs
June 21: (meltdown) Got snagged on "fallout" which is only 7 letters

June 24: (Leland Stanford) Familiar name, but it just didn't surface
June 25: (Liberia) No guess
June 26: (Ebenezer Scrooge) instaget
June 27: (NATO) No guess, clue didn't seem to make sense even after the reveal
June 28: (Camelot) Tried a lot of guesses, but none of them fit.

July 1: (Polynesia) Couldn't put the pieces together.
July 2: (Jury-rigged) NHOI
July 3: (Gorgon) NHOI
July 4: (Amadeus) Didn't know it was a play
July 5: (Martin Luther) Couldn't decode the clue, and I WORK in a Lutheran church. Think I got distracted by the words I didn't know.

July 8: (Montreal) Had a mental block.
July 9: (Leonidas) Familiar name but couldn't match it to the clue
July 10: (The Da Vinci Code) Same
July 11: (Murphy Brown) Same
July 12: (Gumshoe) Instaget

July 15: (Shirley Jackson) NHOI
July 16: (North Macedonia) Total mental block
July 17: (Izaak Walton) NHOI
July 18: (Adolf Eichmann) NHOI
July 19: (Arizona) No guess

July 22: (Victoria Falls) Familiar and gettable but I just didn't. Contestants had three different negs that fit.
July 23: (Scrabble) Instaget
July 24: (Maurice Sendak) Insta-miss with Dr. Seuss, who seemed to fit the clue far better
July 25: (Hotel California) Very familiar album, but the clue seemed to lead me to punk and I had no guess
July 26: (Carpathia) NHOI

So it seems that, far more so than NHOIs, my biggest pitfall seems to be being unable to make the mental connections. And even that seems to be mostly because I don't know enough about the correct response to connect any keywords to it.
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by John Boy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:14 pm

I know you try. God knows you try. But if you seriously missed that many clues, and added "NHOI" that many times, I seriously have to wonder how in the hell you passed the contestant quiz.

No offense dude, but as often as you tell this board you "NHO" things that the great majority of us have in out memory banks, or "can't make the connection," or couldn't decipher the word salad of the clue, how did you get 35 or so right on a typical online contestant quiz?

1. Understanding what clues are asking for;

2. Having a command of information at your disposal; and

3. Being able to figure out some of the clues you don't "know-know" by piecing together bits that you do know....

Those are the building blocks of success on this show. And not a day goes by that you don't share with this board how you failed miserably again at one or more of those things.

And please understand, this isn't to suggest you aren't smart. LOTS of people are smart but not J!-smart, with the above abilities. My wife, master's-degree-educated, is a prime example: bright woman who would absolutely crash and burn on the quiz, let alone the show.

And people have tried here for years to help you with memory clues/devices/strategies of various types. They all seem to bounce off you.

You seem like a genuinely nice guy, but did you ever consider you're possibly just not J! material?

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:19 pm

The thing is, I usually do just fine in the main game. In fact I think I've gotten tangibly better in the past year or so.

There actually were a few things on both the online test and written test at the audition that I knew BECAUSE I had studied previous episodes in preparation.

It seems to be FJ! where I falter the most. What am I doing wrong on FJ! compared to the rest of the game?
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by MinnesotaMyron » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:25 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:19 pm
The thing is, I usually do just fine in the main game. In fact I think I've gotten tangibly better in the past year or so.

There actually were a few things on both the online test and written test at the audition that I knew BECAUSE I had studied previous episodes in preparation.

It seems to be FJ! where I falter the most. What am I doing wrong on FJ! compared to the rest of the game?
If only there were a thread where dozens of people have been advising you on just that very questions for years and years.

And years.

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by floridagator » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:30 pm

For years, you had as your epigram on this site "not J! material." For some reason you have recanted.

Please don't tell me you never heard of epigram and recanted.

You seem like you would have done fine on many classic game shows of our era that did not require the breadth and depth of knowledge that Jeopardy does. If you have a look around the Game Show Network, take a look at some series like sale of the century, tic-tac-dough, the Joker's Wild, and their ilk which require a little bit of trivia knowledge but where you won't be steamrollered if you miss one critical question. It would be nice for the masses who have a little bit of trivia knowledge but aren't competitive in the Jeopardy sphere if some of those shows would come back.

Please also consider non trivia gameshows such as Wheel of Fortune and The Price is Right, where I think you can and have done well.

But I must say, if I ever get the call, and I'm up there in the Challenger's spot working at dethroning the current champ, I absolutely want you in the next podium.

By the way, did you ever solve that mystery of who sent you the book about shopping centers from the 1970s?
I'd rather cuddle then have sex. If you're into grammar, you'll understand.

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by TenPoundHammer » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:59 pm

I took the test and passed it, so I figured I'd pursue this. My maingame play seems to be fine, and I feel like I'm getting fewer "NHOI in the top box" moments.

It's Final Jeopardy! where I seem to falter most, and it doesn't seem to be as much of an NHOI thing as I thought. The correct responses ARE in my brain, but something about FJ! just seems to make me unable to pull them in time.

Also, I have no idea who sent me that book.
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by MarkBarrett » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:40 pm

May 1: (Death) Instaget

May 8: (Security blanket) Strangely I insta-got this one when almost everyone else seemed to struggle.

May 10: (Maine) Had to think about it, but my love of maps made me remember that Maine used to be part of Massachusetts.

May 22: (Virginia) Instaget

May 24: (Sun Valley) Not an instaget, but some thinking got me there.

May 27: (Game of Life) Instaget
May 28: (SpongeBob SquarePants) Instaget

June 12: (View-Master) Instaget
June 13: (glitch) Picked the right synonym somehow.

June 17: (Salem) Instaget

June 26: (Ebenezer Scrooge) instaget

July 12: (Gumshoe) Instaget

July 23: (Scrabble) Instaget

*****
Animation or games bet the farm. Word and phrase origins bet big.

My advice is to watch the reruns of the All-Star Games coming up next week and play the FJ! rounds (all 8 of them) standing up, using scratch paper and try to write something down and playing within the proper 30 seconds. You have seen the clues previously so you should have some success with these clues. Continue the practice for the fresh clues of S36 in Sept.

Your clues right in May - July show a couple of good areas for you. Get on the show and hope for a FJ! clue to your liking. Or use the buzzer and DDs to build up a runaway.

My opinion is there is nothing anyone could post or that you could do in preparation to get you above 60% success rate and I would take the under on 50% as the overall skill set for this portion of J! seems to be lacking on your part, unfortunately.

What could happen is you could be a much better player under the lights on stage. Relaxed conditions at home after working may not be for you while playing for real could somehow energize you with a boost of brain power.

You passed the J! test and that alone indicates you have the chance to win a game for real in Culver City even if a bunch of things have to go right. In 35 seasons there have been many games when everything lined up right for the champ even if that person may have lost any other game that week, month or season.

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by twelvefootboy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:13 pm

John Boy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:14 pm
I know you try. God knows you try. But if you seriously missed that many clues, and added "NHOI" that many times, I seriously have to wonder how in the hell you passed the contestant quiz.
I don't see any contradiction here. The vibe on the contestant quizzes is pretty test-taker friendly and just takes direct recall or the occasional puzzles solve. FJ's are almost all a little more abstract. It compares to the general student's phobia of written math questions with trains going to Chicago. Anyhow, that's my take as a bystander.
floridagator wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:30 pm

But I must say, if I ever get the call, and I'm up there in the Challenger's spot working at dethroning the current champ, I absolutely want you in the next podium.
Be careful what you wish for! Category - Pokemon or North American malls is due anytime!

I have one training suggestion if you aren't doing it already. (It might even give you a couple of answers per season). Be sure to do what Mark and several others do - ponder up as many pre-calls as you can. Don't do the thing where you see the category, and click-click to the clue. Spend FOUR MINUTES. Even if you get stuck on ONE. At least burn in the category - understand the years in the centuries, work your way around the maps, etc..

You will have to do this on the stage anyway. Some grown-ups can correct me, but at the tapings I attended there was quite a bit of time allotted for the wagering and nose powdering.

This is something I won't ever do but would force myself if I was preparing for the show.
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by skrambler » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:04 am

If your skills and recall are good in regular play, then definitely lean into DDs and try to get a lock or crush by final. That's not likely for anyone, however, so I can't stress enough how important proper wagering in final will be.

I knew going into my games that I get FJ correct about 70 percent of the time so I wagered to cover every time I was in the lead, trusting that I'd know it more often than not. If you get on the show and still have a low FJ get rate at that point then wager small, hoping for a triple stumper and/or forcing your opponents to get it right.

Most of all, play YOUR game. Know your strengths and weaknesses, and play to favour the former and mitigate the latter.
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:17 am

twelvefootboy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:13 pm
I don't see any contradiction here. The vibe on the contestant quizzes is pretty test-taker friendly and just takes direct recall or the occasional puzzles solve. FJ's are almost all a little more abstract. It compares to the general student's phobia of written math questions with trains going to Chicago. Anyhow, that's my take as a bystander.
What's weird is that historically I found the opposite to be true. Far too many times in high school and college, I would slave over a single chapter for hours and then come test day, be like "Where the hell was THAT in the text?! I don't remember that at all!!" And nothing I ever tried seemed to help with retention. Even with open-book texts, I would somehow fail a spot-check and pore over every part of the text EXCEPT where the answer was.

Conversely, when I took the online test, I got the first 10 or so easily without breaking a sweat, and I think that gave me the mental clarity to keep going and pull answers I wouldn't have otherwise. I know I was stumped on the first question of the written test and just put down something I knew was wrong, but the next question was super-easy and able to get me back on track. I even studied a few recent episodes on J-Archive and I remember getting at least one question right because it was a fact I'd retained from a recent episode.
twelvefootboy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:13 pm
Be careful what you wish for! Category - Pokemon or North American malls is due anytime!
I've actually choked on wheelhouse categories quite a few times, but far more of them are just genuine brain-farts than hitting on the one obscure fact that isn't in my head.
twelvefootboy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:13 pm
I have one training suggestion if you aren't doing it already. (It might even give you a couple of answers per season). Be sure to do what Mark and several others do - ponder up as many pre-calls as you can. Don't do the thing where you see the category, and click-click to the clue. Spend FOUR MINUTES. Even if you get stuck on ONE. At least burn in the category - understand the years in the centuries, work your way around the maps, etc..
I find that far too often, that just leads to me picking everything BUT the correct response. Multiple times I've given up on a State Capitals or Central American Countries FJ! because I managed to remember all of the ones except for the ones that are the actual correct response. I missed a "hits of the 90s" FJ! because even when spotted "Spain", I pulled up about a billion other Latin Invasion hits but somehow NOT the "Macarena" which was of course the correct response.

Another problem I seem to have is only half-knowing things. I know that Leo Tolstoy was a Russian author, and I know that Anna Karenina and War and Peace are works of Russian literature, but never thought to match them up. I know that "lotus" is a yoga position, but when spotted "this seated, cross-legged yoga position", I'm stumped and don't even think of giving the one yoga position I can name off the top of my head because I'm not sure if the lotus position requires being seated and/or cross-legged. I know that there is a college named Stanford, and a person named Leland Stanford, but again, never made the appropriate mental connections to assume that Stanford university is named for someone and not just a random amalgamation of letters.

Alternatively, the right response is in my brain, but just doesn't surface because I don't match it to the category. I know who Annie Sullivan is, but she's not filed as a "teacher" in my brain so her name never surfaces. Or worse, I know ONLY the name and not who or what it is (Miles Standish, Glass Menagerie, etc.).
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by heppm01 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:39 am

In FJ (assuming a non-zero wager) the penalty for getting it wrong and not answering at all are the same.

There's been many times that you've indicated you couldn't come up with something and an equal number of times that we've told you to just take a guess anyways. My suggestion is that when the new season starts you force yourself to write something down for every single FJ - no matter what or how ridiculous it seems. Russian author who wrote War and Peace? Maybe you'll pull Tolstoy if you force yourself to write something. Or maybe you'll pull Dostoevsky - he's Russian so at least you'd be in the ballpark. Or Dr. Suess - he's an author and at worse, it will be good for a chuckle.

My point is that if you always put down some answer, even if it just a guess, there will be a favorable impact on your get rate. It may be small but every bit helps, and in the long run it may help you unlock knowledge that you apparently have but cannot access readily.

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by OrangeSAM » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:37 pm

Here's a strategy to consider: just win the game b4 FJ!
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by MarkBarrett » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:45 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:59 pm
...

Also, I have no idea who sent me that book.
As a curious bystander: How did floridagator know about the mystery book? Is this something you, THP, shared in a previous post?

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:13 pm

MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:45 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:59 pm
...

Also, I have no idea who sent me that book.
As a curious bystander: How did floridagator know about the mystery book? Is this something you, THP, shared in a previous post?
I actually have no idea. I posted about it when I found it on my doorstep back on June 12. If I'm not mistaken, dhkendall is the only person here with whom I'm friends on Facebook.
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by mas3cf » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:26 pm

The key is to think of FJ! as a riddle, as opposed to a standard J! clue. The idea is to lead you to something you're most likely familiar with. FJ! tends not to be "pure trivia"; i.e., something like "This was Martin Van Buren's middle name." They give you 30 seconds for a reason, try to use the whole time. Even if you think you're sure right away, check your math by making sure your response fits with EVERY WORD of the clue.

Example from your list: the July 8th clue...

NORTH AMERICAN CITIES (from the category, most likely we're looking at Canada or Mexico. If it were US, it would probably be "AMERICAN CITIES". Pre-call some Canadian and Mexican cities... Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Mexico City, Guadalajara, Tijuana.

CLUE: In 2017 this city celebrated its 375th birthday & the 50th anniversary of an event that made it an international tourist destination

Thought process: (1) mental math - 2017-375 = founded in 1642. This rules out most everything except Montreal and Mexico City. 2017-50 = 1967. What happened in one of these cities in 1967? Mexico City hosted the Olympics in 1968... close, but no cigar. So 1967, Montreal? The Expo! Montreal it is.

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by TenPoundHammer » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:46 pm

Should I just accept that I suck at this? I've tried sniffing out key words, and either I never find them, or I DO find them and it still doesn't click.

====

Wednesday clue: "Timely for 2018, in 1866 Mark Twain wrote of this landmark’s 'sputtering jets of fire' & 'heat from Pele’s furnaces'"

Thought process: In this case, I did pick out the key words. "Sputtering jets of fire" means volcanoes. "Pele" means Hawaii. But what happened with volcanoes in 2018? In Hawaii?! Nah, that can't possibly be right, I don't remember anything. Maybe "Pele" meant something different back then. Oh, time's up, I got nothing.

Post-mortem: Yes, something did happen with volcanoes in 2018. Why do you think everyone was asking you about volcanoes when you were in Hawaii last year? What volcano would you associate with Hawaii? Hammer, you idiot.

====

Thursday clue: "'The Eighth Wonder', by composer Alan John & librettist Dennis Watkins, is about this building that opened in 1973"

Thought process: hammer.exe has stopped responding

Post-mortem: Composers and librettists are from opera. What's the first landmark you associate with opera?

====

Again, they're throwing them right at me and I'm just not getting any better. I'm too stumped to think of what to even put down. Should I just accept that i suck at this?
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by MarkBarrett » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:10 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:46 pm
...
Should I just accept that i suck at this?
1 out of 14 correct to start S36? Get on the show and get it right. Until then I'm not sure anything is going to help much. Odds dictate you will get at least one right in October so look forward to it. For September use the break between DJ! and FJ! to do some brainstorming. If at all possible during think time write something down. It's only two days (27th & 30th) and can't hurt to try it.

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by CasketRomance » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:21 pm

John Boy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:14 pm
I know you try. God knows you try. But if you seriously missed that many clues, and added "NHOI" that many times, I seriously have to wonder how in the hell you passed the contestant quiz.

No offense dude, but as often as you tell this board you "NHO" things that the great majority of us have in out memory banks, or "can't make the connection," or couldn't decipher the word salad of the clue, how did you get 35 or so right on a typical online contestant quiz?

1. Understanding what clues are asking for;

2. Having a command of information at your disposal; and

3. Being able to figure out some of the clues you don't "know-know" by piecing together bits that you do know....

Those are the building blocks of success on this show. And not a day goes by that you don't share with this board how you failed miserably again at one or more of those things.

And please understand, this isn't to suggest you aren't smart. LOTS of people are smart but not J!-smart, with the above abilities. My wife, master's-degree-educated, is a prime example: bright woman who would absolutely crash and burn on the quiz, let alone the show.

And people have tried here for years to help you with memory clues/devices/strategies of various types. They all seem to bounce off you.

You seem like a genuinely nice guy, but did you ever consider you're possibly just not J! material?
i don't get it either...from what i have seen over the years on here is i know way more crap than he does and i can't even come close to passing the online test...dude is annoying

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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by TenPoundHammer » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:47 am

CasketRomance wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:21 pm
i don't get it either...from what i have seen over the years on here is i know way more crap than he does and i can't even come close to passing the online test...dude is annoying
Says the person who has not only replied to literally every post I've made on here, but has also stalked me on Twitter and Facebook...
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Re: TPH's FJ! analysis

Post by 1stlvlthinker » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:51 am

CasketRomance wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:21 pm
John Boy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:14 pm
I know you try. God knows you try. But if you seriously missed that many clues, and added "NHOI" that many times, I seriously have to wonder how in the hell you passed the contestant quiz.

No offense dude, but as often as you tell this board you "NHO" things that the great majority of us have in out memory banks, or "can't make the connection," or couldn't decipher the word salad of the clue, how did you get 35 or so right on a typical online contestant quiz?

1. Understanding what clues are asking for;

2. Having a command of information at your disposal; and

3. Being able to figure out some of the clues you don't "know-know" by piecing together bits that you do know....

Those are the building blocks of success on this show. And not a day goes by that you don't share with this board how you failed miserably again at one or more of those things.

And please understand, this isn't to suggest you aren't smart. LOTS of people are smart but not J!-smart, with the above abilities. My wife, master's-degree-educated, is a prime example: bright woman who would absolutely crash and burn on the quiz, let alone the show.

And people have tried here for years to help you with memory clues/devices/strategies of various types. They all seem to bounce off you.

You seem like a genuinely nice guy, but did you ever consider you're possibly just not J! material?
i don't get it either...from what i have seen over the years on here is i know way more crap than he does and i can't even come close to passing the online test...dude is annoying
The thing that pisses me off is that TPH has made more money than I in game shows despite this.

(Note: I'm not actually pissed off at this, it just shows that I probably left money on the table in my game show appearances. I have a habit of choking apparently)
Won some of Ben Stein's money, some of Roger Lodge's, some of Chris Harrison's. None of Alex Trebek's.

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