Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:37 pm

Xu Donym wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:43 am
There's going to be some controversy over today's FJ. The producers' desired answer is NOT a denomination; it's a movement. That movement (the producers' desired answer) is present within a number of denominations, and there are a handful of distinct denominations that identify themselves as being within that movement. A very badly written FJ.
Denomination is a wiggly word that can refer to both genus and species. Baptist is a denomination. But so is Southern Baptist, one of the many Baptist denominations. Other major denominations such as Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, et. al. can be subdivided into their constituent denominations. Pentecostal is just another example of that phenomenon. The Pentecostal denomination comprises many denominations. But all of them have in common their emphasis on the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and in particular the gift of speaking in tongues. The clue may be too obscure for non-TOC Jeopardy!, but I think the wording is fair.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:38 pm

CasketRomance wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:02 pm
dumb final jeopardy clue aside, the wagers by the trailing 2 contestants were even dumber...awful wagering...that dude should never have won on a triple stumper
Jennifer's wager was bad; Christine's hands were tied, and she could have finished with $3,199 at best (if she was going to cover Jennifer).

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:39 pm

mahatma wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:11 pm
I wonder how high Pentecost rises on the 'inside baseball' scale re Christianity. I wonder what an equivalent event or term might be for other major religions, and would J! contestants be expected to know those?
They occasionally ask about Sunni and/or Shiite Muslims. I don't recall them getting into the flavors of Judaism. Judging by the contestant responses and the reactions here, this FJ might be a little too inside ball, but not to the point of egregiousness. I'd say it's fair game for a TOC. Maybe on a level with expecting you to know the founder of the Foursquare Church.
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Aimee Semple McPherson. Interestingly, Wikipedia lists the denomination's "classification" as Protestant, its "orientation" as Pentecostal, and its "polity" as Presbyterian. If we could all standardize on those terms, it might help. But other than "polity", which is already widely in use, it'll never happen.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:43 pm

Danmel wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:18 pm
I got Pentacostal because I know someone who was raised in s pentacostal family in rural Indiana and now lives in Brooklyn and is in a relationship with a Jewish man. She tells stories of people speaking in tongues and laying hands and handling snakes. Hard to forget.
Snake-handling is not something you'll find in the large majority of Pentecostal churches. But I believe the few churches that practice snake-handling do tend to be Pentecostal. They, um, also tend to have dwindling membership.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:43 pm
Danmel wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:18 pm
I got Pentacostal because I know someone who was raised in s pentacostal family in rural Indiana and now lives in Brooklyn and is in a relationship with a Jewish man. She tells stories of people speaking in tongues and laying hands and handling snakes. Hard to forget.
Snake-handling is not something you'll find in the large majority of Pentecostal churches. But I believe the few churches that practice snake-handling do tend to be Pentecostal. They, um, also tend to have dwindling membership.
They're shedding their numbers?

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:12 am

Volante wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
opusthepenguin wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:43 pm
Danmel wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:18 pm
I got Pentacostal because I know someone who was raised in s pentacostal family in rural Indiana and now lives in Brooklyn and is in a relationship with a Jewish man. She tells stories of people speaking in tongues and laying hands and handling snakes. Hard to forget.
Snake-handling is not something you'll find in the large majority of Pentecostal churches. But I believe the few churches that practice snake-handling do tend to be Pentecostal. They, um, also tend to have dwindling membership.
They're shedding their numbers?
They prefer to think of it as scaling down.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Category 13 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:17 am

opusthepenguin wrote: Denomination is a wiggly word that can refer to both genus and species. Baptist is a denomination. But so is Southern Baptist, one of the many Baptist denominations. Other major denominations such as Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, et. al. can be subdivided into their constituent denominations. Pentecostal is just another example of that phenomenon. The Pentecostal denomination comprises many denominations. But all of them have in common their emphasis on the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and in particular the gift of speaking in tongues. The clue may be too obscure for non-TOC Jeopardy!, but I think the wording is fair.
This is the kind of knowledge that the two challengers thought they had when they were making their wagers. Religion? Yeah, I got this.

I had no trouble with this clue. I go to a Baptist church. I have a sister that married into the SDA faith.
Took me about 5 seconds to come up with Penticostal.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:34 am

The $200 boxes felt really off-kilter today:

1.) Had no idea that Reagan had an airport named for him.

2.) I've heard of a halter top but didn't actually know what it is, nor that it has another meaning.

3.) UN Reports for $200 felt like negbait for oil.

4.) Didn't know tofu had another name. "Bean curd" is horribly unfamiliar. California bias from writers?

5.) Can't say I've heard of Alicia Keys before.

B.C. was my only 0/5 in the game.

Also NHO "The Right Stuff" to my knowledge.

Religion with a day in its name?.....Seventh-Day Adventist? What? It's NOT Seventh-Day Adventists? What could it be?!

NEGBAIT NEGBAIT NEGBAIT NEGBAIT GODDAMNIT STOP WITH THE NEGBAIT NEGBAIT NEGBAIT

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:34 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:34 am
The $200 boxes felt really off-kilter today:

1.) Had no idea that Reagan had an airport named for him.
You didn't really have to know that; it mentioned an 87th birthday in 1998, and just two living ex-presidents at the time were in their eighties. (I knew Reagan was born in 1911 so it wasn't a coinflip for me, but if you got it down to the two surviving presidents born in 191x, it wouldn't be hard to favor two-term Reagan over two-and-a-half-year Ford for renaming Washington National Airport.)
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:34 am
GODDAMNIT STOP WITH THE NEGBAIT NEGBAIT NEGBAIT
That's what we keep saying to you!

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Leander » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:46 am

I’m really puzzled over the anguish and the triple stumper on this clue. I grew up in an Episcopal church with some Catholic family members in the Northeast. The clue led me immediately to Pentecost (although when I was a kid it was called Whitsunday) and Pentecostalism, without thinking whether it was a denomination or not.

I guess if I were brought up outside the Christian tradition it could be tricky, but it’s not a particularly obscure concept. I also can’t see how everyone, including the contestants, got to Seventh Day Adventist at all.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by CasketRomance » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:04 am

seaborgium wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:34 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:34 am
The $200 boxes felt really off-kilter today:

1.) Had no idea that Reagan had an airport named for him.
You didn't really have to know that; it mentioned an 87th birthday in 1998, and just two living ex-presidents at the time were in their eighties. (I knew Reagan was born in 1911 so it wasn't a coinflip for me, but if you got it down to the two surviving presidents born in 191x, it wouldn't be hard to favor two-term Reagan over two-and-a-half-year Ford for renaming Washington National Airport.)
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:34 am
GODDAMNIT STOP WITH THE NEGBAIT NEGBAIT NEGBAIT
That's what we keep saying to you!

in ford's defense he did get an airport named after him in 1999...grand rapids airport

but you are right...wasn't all that difficult even if someone never knew he had an airport named after him, although i have no idea how someone in this country didn't know it...it wasn't like they asked for the us president that had an airport named after him in bolivia until 1999

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:07 am

I actually rejected Seventh Day Adventists, figuring the Seventh Day referred to rest, not some event. But I went with Latter Day Saints since it had 'day' in it. I've heard of Pentecostalism, but do not know what Pentecost was.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bigdogstalfos » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:20 am

Leander wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:46 am
I’m really puzzled over the anguish and the triple stumper on this clue. I grew up in an Episcopal church with some Catholic family members in the Northeast. The clue led me immediately to Pentecost (although when I was a kid it was called Whitsunday) and Pentecostalism, without thinking whether it was a denomination or not.

I guess if I were brought up outside the Christian tradition it could be tricky, but it’s not a particularly obscure concept. I also can’t see how everyone, including the contestants, got to Seventh Day Adventist at all.
Congregationalist here, and yeah, there were other clues that weren’t leading to only “guess a church with a day in its name.” Pentecost is one of the few church holidays that set the liturgical calendar. It’s also the day when the vestments are red, from the Holy Spirit coming down as tongues of flame. I don’t see the strong negbait at all, but maybe that’s just my bias growing up in the church.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:56 am

alietr wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:07 am
I actually rejected Seventh Day Adventists, figuring the Seventh Day referred to rest, not some event. But I went with Latter Day Saints since it had 'day' in it. I've heard of Pentecostalism, but do not know what Pentecost was.
You might know it better as the Feast/Festival of Weeks or Shavuot (שָׁבוּעוֹת). "Pentecost" just comes from the Greek word for fiftieth because the feast occurs 50 days after Passover.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:30 am

I can't stand mushrooms - they taste like metal to me. And yet 4/5 right in that category - sorry cremini. Go figure.

I started typing in seventh day adv...and then backspaced when I saw the end of the clue. Seventh day echoed to me "and on the seventh day, god rested", which in the Old Testament would be Saturday, since that's the Sabbath to many Jews - and, apparently, Seventh Day Adventists. Didn't recall that much in real time, but looking it up jogged my memory.

From there, it was "holy spirit = pentecost". Jimmy Swaggart and Oral Roberts are apparently both Pentecostal, so I'm not sure it's 100% obscure - although I lived in the South for 6 years as a teenager, so I may be a bit biased. I was surprised that it was a triple stumper, but it stumped a lot of people here, too.

Speaking of religion, I had "the Exodus" for the "Babylonian Exile" - judges? No way would I have survived a "be more specific"...

I found this show to be extremely frustrating - a lot of NHOs for me. Completely whiffed the first round "BC" category except for "bass cleff", which I thought was so easy it should have been a $100 clue, not $600. Yes, I know they don't do $100 anymore, but I thought it was that easy - because I guess I'm all about the bass. It's really frustrating to blank on wordplay categories, because the answers seem so easy - how do I not know that "snake + BC = boa constrictor"?

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:26 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:37 pm
Xu Donym wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:43 am
There's going to be some controversy over today's FJ. The producers' desired answer is NOT a denomination; it's a movement. That movement (the producers' desired answer) is present within a number of denominations, and there are a handful of distinct denominations that identify themselves as being within that movement. A very badly written FJ.
Denomination is a wiggly word that can refer to both genus and species. Baptist is a denomination. But so is Southern Baptist, one of the many Baptist denominations. Other major denominations such as Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, et. al. can be subdivided into their constituent denominations. Pentecostal is just another example of that phenomenon. The Pentecostal denomination comprises many denominations. But all of them have in common their emphasis on the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and in particular the gift of speaking in tongues. The clue may be too obscure for non-TOC Jeopardy!, but I think the wording is fair.
I agree that the wording was fair, even though the clue cost me a third consecutive 5-for-5 on FJs. I joined the players (after rejecting LDS) with the only other religious group that popped up with "Day" in the name. Then smacked myself at the reveal, thinking, "I should have known that."

I don't think I'd classify it as negbait, but it was definitely forehead-slapper. I probably would not have rung in if it had been a regular clue.
Last edited by AFRET CMS on Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:32 pm

I had 'Babylonian Captivity'
FJ was an instaget, but I grew up in the AoG.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woof » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:41 pm

As I stated on FB, I, a non-Christian, managed to get FJ right because I had earlier looked up the meaning of Pentecost after missing an earlier J! question about it. My biggest gripe was with the photo shiitake that they used: it looked nothing like the shiitakes that I regularly buy at the store. I said matsutake, the curse of knowing too much about the subject.

ETA: I’d like to request a poll question regarding the familiarity with both terms Pentecost and Pentecostal. I’d have wagered that the latter was more familiar, but I’m no longer so sure after reading through this thread.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:16 pm

talkingaway wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:30 am
Speaking of religion, I had "the Exodus" for the "Babylonian Exile" - judges? No way would I have survived a "be more specific"...
No BMS needed. That's a clean neg, unfortunately. The Exodus refers to the other end of Israel's history, when they were brought OUT of Egypt and INTO the Promised Land. The Exile happens when they've been in the Promised Land for centuries. After repeatedly violating the terms of their tenant agreement (AKA the Torah), God kicks them OUT of the Promised Land, so they go INTO exile. (By this point the kingdom has been split in two, so there are separate exiles. The northern kingdom, which retained the name Israel, goes into exile in Assyria. The southern kingdom, consisting mostly of the tribe of Judah--hence the "Jews"--gets to stay a little longer but is eventually exiled to Babylon. Only the southern kingdom gets to have a third part to their story, i.e. The Return, in which they repent of their sins and God brings them BACK to the Promised Land.)

The basic story isn't complicated--except maybe for that twist about the kingdom splitting. So it could be worth getting down for J! purposes, or even just for general awareness.

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Re: Friday, November 1, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:30 pm

DBear wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:32 pm
I had 'Babylonian Captivity'
While "captivity" isn't exactly a "forced departure," I think they would have given it to you. In fact, that may have been the specific term that precipitated the writing of the clue. Remember, the category was B.C. It wasn't in quotation marks the way the similar SJ category had been, but still....

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