Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:15 am

opusthepenguin wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:42 am
hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:12 pm
I don't think Anneke should have been BMS'd for her response of Guyana in the $2,000 "To the Stars" clue asking for a South American territory. French Guiana isn't a more specific version of saying "Guyana"; Guyana is an independent country and I think the response should have been treated as incorrect.
Totally agree. I was yelling at the TV on that one. I mean, consider how the Internet would've blown up over this equivalent scenario.

CONTESTANT: I'll take NORTH AMERICA for $400, Alex.

ALEX: Ok, "This state's capital is Santa Fe"

CONTESTANT: What is Mexico?

ALEX: well... Be more specific

CONTESTANT: What is NEW Mexico?

ALEX: That's it!
This throat feature tends to be more pronounced in men than in women.

What is an apple?

Be more specific...

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:55 am

The Top Ten List as an $800 clue? Seriouslly, writers?

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by billiej » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:00 am

hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:12 pm
That FJ seemed . . . easy for a TOC match. I did wonder if Marathon was too obvious.
That almost threw me, too. Especially after the J round beat me up and the DJ round took my lunch money. But in the end, for me it was WECIB. I'll take it.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:30 am

How is it that my Coryat for this show was $20,200, but for the last non-ToC was $18,200? I'll admit, this is my first season of watching J! regularly as an adult, but I was expecting to be depressed after my first ToC show. And there weren't any categories today that were 100% up my alley today aside from TV (which I semi-botched due to my brain not being fast enough to pull Thomas Gibson and Scott Baio) - to the contrary, Ballet and Opera was one where I'd ask "Could I bet $5 of -his- dollars?" on a DD, and point to the guy next to me.

How are Kagan and Ginsberg both rated as "harder" than John Jay? I get it - he's the FIRST Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, so it would have to be Washington. But Kagan and Ginsberg? Kagan was (admittedly, barely) this decade, which leaves two options, and if you're going for the second one...I can't help ya there. And Ginsberg? Only two viable options are Carter and Clinton, unless maybe somehow you mistake her for Sandra Day O'Connor. If you can get two clues by watching SNL, and a third clue pretty much has to come from a history text...I'd say the history one generally belongs lower.

Again, another science question I muffed a little bit by having never heard it out loud - I said "beh-quell" for "beh-kur-ell". Where do people hear these words out loud?

I was so suspicious of my (correct) FJ! answer - especially since, again, this was the hallowed ToC! Three Greek names in the clue? Running a long distance? They almost got me with the distance being 150 miles - I didn't know the tidbit that the 25 mile distance was the distance from Marathon to Athens, not from Athens to Sparta. Fortunately, I had WECIB-syndrome.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Peter the accountant » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:18 am

Since he hasn't weighed in yet, I guess I'll play the role of TPH for this game.

I "knew" the famous run associated with the battle was a lot shorter, so a 150 mile run couldn't be pointing to THAT battle. So it must be something else. Ended up staring at FJ today. :oops:
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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woppy T » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:45 am

Peter the accountant wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:18 am
Since he hasn't weighed in yet, I guess I'll play the role of TPH for this game.

I "knew" the famous run associated with the battle was a lot shorter, so a 150 mile run couldn't be pointing to THAT battle. So it must be something else. Ended up staring at FJ today. :oops:
My thinking was similar. I saw "battle" and "messenger" and immediately thought of Marathon, but then I thought that the messenger only ran 26.2 miles or so, and figured it had to be something else. Guessed Thermopylae just to say something.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:42 pm

billiej wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:00 am
hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:12 pm
That FJ seemed . . . easy for a TOC match. I did wonder if Marathon was too obvious.
That almost threw me, too. Especially after the J round beat me up and the DJ round took my lunch money. But in the end, for me it was WECIB. I'll take it.
I didn't reject Marathon as too obvious, I rejected it because of the Sparta connection in the clue. I knew Sparta didn't participate, but didn't know they had been asked to. I therefore went with Thermopylae instead, since both Athens and Sparta participated. Sigh.
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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:45 pm

Alex performed very well. On top of his game and hardly a difference from his normal self.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:12 pm

floridagator wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:38 am
I said knight for white knight. Judges? (Of course, white always moves first.)
Yes I thought this was interesting. I assume a response of knight would be either accepted or prompted. It is a bit silly to prompt for white knight as white always moves first, and testing whether a contestant knows that white always moves first is pretty irrelevant to a clue about any specific opening. If I were on the stage and got prompted, I might be concerned that they're asking WHICH knight, meaning King's knight or Queen's knight, so I very well might take a 50/50 guess on that and not even consider that they are asking for white. Per wikipedia the Reti Opening involves the King's knight but I don't know enough chesss to know if this necessarily has to be the case.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:29 pm

Bigdogstalfos wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:33 pm
hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:12 pm
]obvious.

I don't think Anneke should have been BMS'd for her response of Guyana in the $2,000 "To the Stars" clue asking for a South American territory. French Guiana isn't a more specific version of saying "Guyana"; Guyana is an independent country and I think the response should have been treated as incorrect.
Same. There were a lot of paths to victory even if you didn’t know 490 BC cold as the date. Athens is involved, there is a runner, just like after the battle. Ah well.

And agree with the Guyana answer. It’s a totally separate country. If you answered Ireland for a question on Northern Ireland, I don’t think you’d be prompted.

I am glad with the Wolfe TS, we didn’t have to handle the possibility of someone answering Thomas Wolfe and whether that would be considered correct as Thomas and Tom were both authors.
If she had said "GUY-ah-na" (pronounced like ''Guys and Dolls") you would be right. THAT is the name of the independent nation formerly known as British Guiana (Pronounced GEE-ah-na"). But she said (IIRC) "GEE-ah-na." which used to be the correct pronunciation of all three when they were colonies: British, French, and Dutch G-EE-ah-na. So IMHO the BMS correct.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LeFlaneur » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:50 pm

yclept wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:31 am
This was a good first game. The players were evenly matched up. Gilbert had trouble getting going in DJ after a rock solid Jeopardy round but did enough to win it. I now agree with those who say he should have maxed out his wager but his wager wasn’t terrible - if facing a potential WC, wagering to make sure you finish at least second on a triple get is smart and he did that.

I am not sure if I agree with going with the James strategy in QF games where all the material is going to be read anyway. Hunting for the DD is obviously fine but I would bet against James earning a quick $6K using this strategy this week, never mind players who have never tried to play this way before.
I think that going for the higher valued clues first is maybe not such a good idea in TOC. For one thing the clues are much harder and one might be surprised at what the category's title actually implies. James H. may be able to pull it off but maybe not so for others. Good game. I had 6 or 7 LT and FJ. :mrgreen:
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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hbomb1947 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:59 pm

John Boy wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:29 pm
Bigdogstalfos wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:33 pm
hbomb1947 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:12 pm
]obvious.

I don't think Anneke should have been BMS'd for her response of Guyana in the $2,000 "To the Stars" clue asking for a South American territory. French Guiana isn't a more specific version of saying "Guyana"; Guyana is an independent country and I think the response should have been treated as incorrect.
And agree with the Guyana answer. It’s a totally separate country. If you answered Ireland for a question on Northern Ireland, I don’t think you’d be prompted.
If she had said "GUY-ah-na" (pronounced like ''Guys and Dolls") you would be right. THAT is the name of the independent nation formerly known as British Guiana (Pronounced GEE-ah-na"). But she said (IIRC) "GEE-ah-na." which used to be the correct pronunciation of all three when they were colonies: British, French, and Dutch G-EE-ah-na. So IMHO the BMS correct.
That's a little silly for the ruling to have turned on the contestant's pronunciation and I doubt that's what happened. Leaving aside that I (and presumably many other people) have always (incorrectly?) pronounced the independent country Gee-AH-na (with a hard G), J! goes by phonetically plausible pronunciations anyway and she wouldn't have been negged if the actual intended response was Guyana and she said "What is Gee-AH-na?" By the way, I just re-watched that clue and Anneke did pronounce it with the stress on the second syllable. Anyway, Occam's razor suggests Alex was merely following the dubious Ireland / Northern Ireland precedent mentioned upthread. If Guyana was still called British Guiana, then a BMS would have been warranted. But Guyana has been independent since 1966, so if you're given a choice between Guyana and French Guiana and your response is "Guyana" (under any phonetically plausible pronunciation), you've simply picked the wrong one. If Alex prompts you, similar to what happened with Buzzy when he initially rang in with "What is "Ireland?", then he's essentially giving you an extra life by telegraphing to you that it has to be the other one.

ETA: A query. J! has always distinguished between Invisible Man and The Invisible Man. If the intended response was The Invisible Man and a contestant said "What is Invisible Man?", would Alex ask her to be more specific?
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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeopardyfan939 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:09 pm

Speaking of the QF predictions, I hope James doesn't lose tomorrow's game; in fact I'd like to see him at least make it to the finals.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:11 pm

"GUY" versus "GHEE" is basically just a different in English versus French pronunciations. "Guy" in English is pronounced GHEE in French. And since Guyana is former British Guiana, I don't think it's particularly inappropriate to ask for a BMS on "Guiana". I would even go so far as to say an expected response of "Suriname" might deserve a BMS on "Guiana" unless the clue is expressly pinned to wanting the name of the modern country.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:16 pm

Woppy T wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:45 am
Peter the accountant wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:18 am
Since he hasn't weighed in yet, I guess I'll play the role of TPH for this game.

I "knew" the famous run associated with the battle was a lot shorter, so a 150 mile run couldn't be pointing to THAT battle. So it must be something else. Ended up staring at FJ today. :oops:
My thinking was similar. I saw "battle" and "messenger" and immediately thought of Marathon, but then I thought that the messenger only ran 26.2 miles or so, and figured it had to be something else. Guessed Thermopylae just to say something.
Glad I wasn't the only one that got thrown by this. I was positive the modern marathon distance was based on the distance the messenger had to run.

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:31 pm

I had Supreme Court Justice as an 0/5 before any clues came up.

Surprised myself by getting all but $1,000 in Harvard Lampoon.

Had no idea that the King in chess had a cross on him.

NHO that make of Mitsubishi, stalled out trying to come up with any "M" cars.

What was the TOM for Frankenstein in Opera/Ballet for $400?

Godard/Von Braun is one of those coin flips I always lose, but today I couldn't remember what was on the other side of the coin.

Party of the Second Part was entirely over my head. NHO any of those except Mork & Mindy.

Instantly rejected Marathon because a marathon is only 26 miles, not 150. Again, I wouldn't have put that down if you had held a gun to my head, because I was 9,000,000,000,000,000% certain it was wrong.
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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:18 pm

jeff6286 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:12 pm
floridagator wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:38 am
I said knight for white knight. Judges? (Of course, white always moves first.)
Yes I thought this was interesting. I assume a response of knight would be either accepted or prompted. It is a bit silly to prompt for white knight as white always moves first, and testing whether a contestant knows that white always moves first is pretty irrelevant to a clue about any specific opening. If I were on the stage and got prompted, I might be concerned that they're asking WHICH knight, meaning King's knight or Queen's knight, so I very well might take a 50/50 guess on that and not even consider that they are asking for white. Per wikipedia the Reti Opening involves the King's knight but I don't know enough chesss to know if this necessarily has to be the case.
Opening with the queen's knight would definitely preclude the game's being classed as the "Reti opening", even by transposition of moves. But I'd be extremely surprised if they'd demand such specific chess knowledge, even for the bottom row clue. With just a bit of rules knowledge, though, everything but knights and pawns can be ruled out, and the use of the word "piece" is a nudge toward the knight, as "piece" is used technically in chess to distinguish every other type of movable from a pawn. Perhaps a bit too "inside baseball" for Jeopardy, but their use of the word "hypermodern" was another hint to choose the less traditional of the two possibilities. Hypermodernism in chess was part of the whole loosening movement of the 1920's--men wore "Oxford bags", women discarded their corsets, and both sexes experimented with not occupying the center with pawns.
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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:21 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:31 pm
What was the TOM for Frankenstein in Opera/Ballet for $400?
What wasn't? You couldn't have gift-wrapped the clue any more than they did with 1818 novel, Victor (Dr. Frankenstein's first name), and galvanism (Galvani discovered that dissected frogs' legs moved when electricity was applied to their muscles).

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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:16 pm

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:16 pm
Woppy T wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:45 am
Peter the accountant wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:18 am
Since he hasn't weighed in yet, I guess I'll play the role of TPH for this game.

I "knew" the famous run associated with the battle was a lot shorter, so a 150 mile run couldn't be pointing to THAT battle. So it must be something else. Ended up staring at FJ today. :oops:
My thinking was similar. I saw "battle" and "messenger" and immediately thought of Marathon, but then I thought that the messenger only ran 26.2 miles or so, and figured it had to be something else. Guessed Thermopylae just to say something.
Glad I wasn't the only one that got thrown by this. I was positive the modern marathon distance was based on the distance the messenger had to run.
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Re: Monday, November 4, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cthulhu » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:00 pm

All three players are dead to me after the stand-and-stare on the Tom Wolfe clue.

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