Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

User avatar
MollyQMurphy
Silver Medalist
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:01 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MollyQMurphy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:28 am

Ironhorse wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:51 am
I thought they were looking for a food belt because of a reference to a literal belt expansion and for some reason, thought first of the Jello Belt (Mormons). I could not dig myself out of this hole.

If it takes longer than two seconds to parse the clue, it's a stinker in my book.
Totally agree. Awful clue, still felt like a vague and footless quote after looking into it. AND I'm a migrant from the Rust Belt to the Sun Belt!
Pending...

User avatar
MollyQMurphy
Silver Medalist
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:01 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MollyQMurphy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:42 am

jev15 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:07 am
I'd like to second Alex's recommendation of My Favorite Year to everyone who hasn't seen it. (And judging by the Fourth Podium poll, that's a lot of you.) One of the great underrated comedies of all-time, with an utterly fantastic performance from Peter O'Toole.
Could not believe this was a TS. Ditto all you said about this movie. Loved it at the time. Has a special poignancy now that I'm caregiving my addled mother. Just a terrific movie, so funny, so sad.
Pending...

yclept
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:43 am

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:47 am

The contestants demolished the Jeopardy round board but the DJ round was a little more rough. James didn’t go too crazy with ringing in after nailing that DD so I wonder if he just put it in cruise control and was only ringing in on clues he thought were obvious. No need to take risks at that point.

Steven and Rachel did well for themselves in a very difficult spot. I guess it is advantageous to draw James in the QF, where you will have a chance to build a solid WC score *and* avoid James in the SF if you earn that score. In other words, Lindsey made out well with her draw.

I wouldn’t say James vs Emma is a tossup but it certainly Is not an obvious James win. Can she and podium #3 keep up with him over the course of two games? Not sure but it will be fun to watch.

User avatar
Picked Off
Jeopardy! Contestant
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Picked Off » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:49 am

Negged with bible and rust like a lot of others. Isn't the Bible Belt growing in population relative to the Rust Belt as well?
Season 27 player and lifelong fan

User avatar
hbomb1947
Still hoping to get on Jeopardy! while my age is in double digits
Posts: 2421
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:31 am

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hbomb1947 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:43 am

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:37 am
BigDaddyMatty wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:44 am
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:31 pm
What was the TOM for "Toyko" on the top box? "Narita" sounds like it could be from literally anywhere.
No, it doesn't. The fact that you don't recognize linguistic clues doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Let's not complicate this with linguistics; the TOM is that Narita is Tokyo's international airport.
So, to a lesser extent, is Haneda, but like you said, let's keep this simple. :D
Follow me on twitter, even though I rarely tweet! https://twitter.com/hbomb_worldwide

User avatar
JayK33
Just a Fan
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:10 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by JayK33 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:31 am

For trivial sake, how many players faced each other in regular games and got to play against each other again in a ToC? Emma and James now, Vik and Bill from S22 I can also think of.

User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1698
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:53 am

A Wray wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:29 pm
I found this FJ pretty straightforward and don't understand the criticisms. The fastest-growing region by far is the Southwest...
But, again, the category indicated the issue was one about demographics, not population. So the question is not whether a region is benefiting from emigration writ large, but rather whether it is benefiting from a demographic shift. Since the Southwest has always been a haven for retirees, and more Baby Boomers than ever are retiring, that would only seem indicate more of the same, at least on the face of it. Sorry, Old People, but you're not considered invigorating to the economy in the way that young educated workers are, with all their Starbucks Buying and New Car Buying and 30-Year Mortgage Borrowing. Perhaps there are some places in the Southwest that are attracting Millennials--certainly Southern California, Phoenix, the Vegas area--but I think Bible Belt cities have been much bigger attractors for educated young people--the Research Triangle, Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Greenville, Gainesville, Dallas, Knoxville, Lexington, Orlando.

At best you can say this clue was a coin flip with only a very minor weighting towards "heads" (Sun Belt). Absent having seen the article headline, there's nothing in the clue to provide one certainty between two reasonable options.

User avatar
twelvefootboy
JBOARDIE OF THE MONTH!
Posts: 1568
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:18 pm
Location: Tornado Alley / Southwest Missouri

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:21 am

MollyQMurphy wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:28 am
Ironhorse wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:51 am
I thought they were looking for a food belt because of a reference to a literal belt expansion and for some reason, thought first of the Jello Belt (Mormons). I could not dig myself out of this hole.

If it takes longer than two seconds to parse the clue, it's a stinker in my book.
Totally agree. Awful clue, still felt like a vague and footless quote after looking into it. AND I'm a migrant from the Rust Belt to the Sun Belt!
This is a turd of a clue. I had to triple take to decide they want TWO fake belts. So, Rust and Bible it is, after trying to tie in Red/Blue political expressions. There's a Sun Belt? A Snow Belt? A Jello Belt?

Usually on reveal, the writers have enlightened us about something. Not this day. I've no idea wtf is being explained. Population movement I assume. That is delightful? Yes, it is a dismal science.

Off topic, but I for one am ready for the new producer to abandon the phony answer/question format. That would clean up crap clues like this and the tangled syntax that nobody would ever use as an answer. I think in the last 3 years of my paying attention, maybe one player has been negged for phrasing. What is "It's a quiz show, dammit!"
Disclaimer - repeated exposure to author's musings may cause befuddlement.

User avatar
This Is Kirk!
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 4789
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:53 am

I haven't gone through all the posts yet, so apologize if this has already been covered, but did anyone else get stuck thinking one of the belts was an actual belt--as in the kind you wear around your waist? I figured the implication was that the Bible belt has an obesity problem, but realized it was a dead end then I didn't have time to think of anything else.

Also did anyone else say javelina instead of peccary? I'm assuming it would count.

Bigdogstalfos
Valued Contributor
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:36 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bigdogstalfos » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:47 am

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:53 am
I haven't gone through all the posts yet, so apologize if this has already been covered, but did anyone else get stuck thinking one of the belts was an actual belt--as in the kind you wear around your waist? I figured the implication was that the Bible belt has an obesity problem, but realized it was a dead end then I didn't have time to think of anything else.

Also did anyone else say javelina instead of peccary? I'm assuming it would count.
I was another Rust/Bible answer, but I did think it would be funny if the answers had included something like the Intercontinental Championship.

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 6997
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:02 pm

Linear Gnome wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:11 pm
I said "crucial" for "crux". Judges? The clue doesn't seem to call specifically for the noun vs. the adjective. I got "posse comitatus" because I've been doing a JAG rewatch and it was the title of one of the episodes.
I'll register a dissenting opinion from my esteemed colleague and say yes. I think the clue has enough ambiguity that either part of speech has to be accepted. Here's the clue so we have it in front of us:

- I'm very "cross" about this Latin word meaning a vital or pivotal point

I agree that it's more natural to read the clue as asking for a word that means "a vital or pivotal point." So "crux" is a better fit. But it's not completely UNreasonable to read the clue as saying "What kind of point is vital or pivotal?" A crucial point. That's what kind of point.

In any event, I feel as though we've had this conversation multiple times over the years. A clue seemed to be looking for, say, an adjective, but they accepted the noun or verb or whatever. I can't find a good example right now, but I did find this:

ANTONYMS $800: This adjective is the opposite of "attentive"; legally, it refers to one who fails to use "due care" & "ordinary prudence" ("What is negligence" accepted.)

Yes. Even when the clue SPECIFIED an adjective, they accepted a noun. When the clue doesn't specify, as in the one under discussion, I'd have to say your odds are even better of getting an off response accepted.

mrparadise
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:30 am

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mrparadise » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:34 pm

I too spent a good part of the 30 seconds trying to figure out exactly what they wanted. One belt or two? If one, which one? I did figure they wanted both and it made sense that problems in the rust belt would send a lot of people fleeing to better opportunities in the sun belt. The clue certainly could have been presented more clearly. I'm wondering if the staff, realizing the ambiguity, might have advised the contestants that the clue required two terms, and if the "proper" order was required. I don't see how this would have spoiled the clue in any way or given an unfair advantage.

Someone asked above if anyone had gone with javelina instead of peccary. I sure did.

User avatar
alietr
Site Admin
Posts: 6807
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:47 pm

mrparadise wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:34 pm
Someone asked above if anyone had gone with javelina instead of peccary. I sure did.
+1

I'm going to take a crack at the wording. Instead of:

In 2018 Forbes said this "Belt’s Demographic Delight is" this other “Belt’s Demographic Dilemma"

How about:

In 2018, Forbes said of these two belts that one "Belt's Demographic Delight" is the other "Belt's Demographic Dilemma".

davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 3597
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:17 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:02 pm
Linear Gnome wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:11 pm
I said "crucial" for "crux". Judges? The clue doesn't seem to call specifically for the noun vs. the adjective. I got "posse comitatus" because I've been doing a JAG rewatch and it was the title of one of the episodes.
I'll register a dissenting opinion from my esteemed colleague and say yes. I think the clue has enough ambiguity that either part of speech has to be accepted. Here's the clue so we have it in front of us:

- I'm very "cross" about this Latin word meaning a vital or pivotal point

I agree that it's more natural to read the clue as asking for a word that means "a vital or pivotal point." So "crux" is a better fit. But it's not completely UNreasonable to read the clue as saying "What kind of point is vital or pivotal?" A crucial point. That's what kind of point.

In any event, I feel as though we've had this conversation multiple times over the years. A clue seemed to be looking for, say, an adjective, but they accepted the noun or verb or whatever. I can't find a good example right now, but I did find this:

ANTONYMS $800: This adjective is the opposite of "attentive"; legally, it refers to one who fails to use "due care" & "ordinary prudence" ("What is negligence" accepted.)

Yes. Even when the clue SPECIFIED an adjective, they accepted a noun. When the clue doesn't specify, as in the one under discussion, I'd have to say your odds are even better of getting an off response accepted.
I registered a strong dissent at the time that clue appeared. On this Jeoprudential matter I am a strict constructionist... :geek:

John Boy
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:11 am

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:26 pm

Ironhorse wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:51 am
I thought they were looking for a food belt because of a reference to a literal belt expansion and for some reason, thought first of the Jello Belt (Mormons). I could not dig myself out of this hole.

If it takes longer than two seconds to parse the clue, it's a stinker in my book.
Since the category indicated that the subject was demographics, I'm not sure how a "literal belt" would enter the mind. I did think it was an awfully awkwardly stated clue, as it took me several seconds to be SURE they were looking for two answers.

After that the only two that made sense to me were the correct ones. So it is done. I have come up with a correct FJ in the ToC that was a triple stumper for a trio of semifinalists including the legendary James. I can die a happy man now. Although I'd still prefer not to.

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:35 pm

alietr wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:57 pm
Count me as someone who had trouble parsing FJ, didn't think it was a good clue, but nonetheless got it right.
I disagree on all counts.

I got it wrong - same answer as James. But just after the time was up, I thought of the Sun Belt and immediately knew that was right and my Bible was wrong.

But I thought the clue was perfectly understandable and well-pinned. The only "problem" with it was that it was hard.

davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 3597
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:45 pm

alietr wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:47 pm
mrparadise wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:34 pm
Someone asked above if anyone had gone with javelina instead of peccary. I sure did.
+1

I'm going to take a crack at the wording. Instead of:

In 2018 Forbes said this "Belt’s Demographic Delight is" this other “Belt’s Demographic Dilemma"

How about:

In 2018, Forbes said of these two belts that one "Belt's Demographic Delight" is the other "Belt's Demographic Dilemma".
In 2018, Forbes said that people continue to move into this "Demographic Belt" and move out of this other "Demographic Belt"
I don't see how "Delight" and "Dilemma" are that helpful. The clue is in essence asking for the conventional understanding on intra-US migration as stated cutely by a headline - the article only brings it up to suggest that the trend may be slowly ending.
I have seldom hated an FJ more... :twisted: I would have preferred a clue about "mesofacts," a term in the article I've never heard of before...

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:25 pm

Robert K S wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:53 am
Since the Southwest has always been a haven for retirees, and more Baby Boomers than ever are retiring, that would only seem indicate more of the same, at least on the face of it. Sorry, Old People, but you're not considered invigorating to the economy in the way that young educated workers are, with all their Starbucks Buying and New Car Buying and 30-Year Mortgage Borrowing.
It's hard to find ready data on working-age population by state and year, but if the argument that SW population growth is driven by retirees and not by working people and economic expansion is true, that should show in GDP data, which are readily available from BEA.

Average annual real GDP growth in the last 20 years (1998-2018) in Sun Belt states that are not (or mostly not) in the Bible Belt:
CA 3.1%
AZ 2.7%
NV 2.3%
NM 1.7%
FL 2.3% (only the north part is considered to be in the Bible Belt)

Average annual real GDP growth in the last 20 years (1998-2018) in Bible Belt states that are (mostly) not in the Sun Belt:
MO 1.0%
OK 2.6%
AR 1.6%
KY 1.1%
TN 1.9%
NC 2.1%
VA 2.1% (but only its southern part is in the Bible Belt, while virtually all growth has been in the north)
WV 0.9% (again, only its southern part is in the BB, though growth has been poor throughout the state)

So, with the sole exceptions of NM (the least populous state in the first set) and OK (the 3rd-least populous in the second set), the first set dominates the second.

Also informative is growth by region:
Southwest 3.0%
Far West 3.0%
Southeast 1.9%
Great Lakes (for the Rust Belt) 1.2%

Not sure if this link works directly, but searching for "GDP by state" should get you there: https://apps.bea.gov/itable/iTable.cfm? ... =1&isuri=1

User avatar
gnash
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:24 am

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gnash » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:27 pm

davey wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:45 pm
alietr wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:47 pm
mrparadise wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:34 pm
Someone asked above if anyone had gone with javelina instead of peccary. I sure did.
+1

I'm going to take a crack at the wording. Instead of:

In 2018 Forbes said this "Belt’s Demographic Delight is" this other “Belt’s Demographic Dilemma"

How about:

In 2018, Forbes said of these two belts that one "Belt's Demographic Delight" is the other "Belt's Demographic Dilemma".
In 2018, Forbes said that people continue to move into this "Demographic Belt" and move out of this other "Demographic Belt"
I don't see how "Delight" and "Dilemma" are that helpful. The clue is in essence asking for the conventional understanding on intra-US migration as stated cutely by a headline - the article only brings it up to suggest that the trend may be slowly ending.
I have seldom hated an FJ more... :twisted: I would have preferred a clue about "mesofacts," a term in the article I've never heard of before...
If you put "Demographic Belt" in quotes, you are simply misquoting and making the clue factually wrong.

Beside the benefit of using actual quotes for pinning the clue, "delight" contains "light" which may help guide you to "Sun".

davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 3597
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:33 pm

gnash wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:27 pm
davey wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:45 pm
alietr wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:47 pm
mrparadise wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:34 pm
Someone asked above if anyone had gone with javelina instead of peccary. I sure did.
+1

I'm going to take a crack at the wording. Instead of:

In 2018 Forbes said this "Belt’s Demographic Delight is" this other “Belt’s Demographic Dilemma"

How about:

In 2018, Forbes said of these two belts that one "Belt's Demographic Delight" is the other "Belt's Demographic Dilemma".
In 2018, Forbes said that people continue to move into this "Demographic Belt" and move out of this other "Demographic Belt"
I don't see how "Delight" and "Dilemma" are that helpful. The clue is in essence asking for the conventional understanding on intra-US migration as stated cutely by a headline - the article only brings it up to suggest that the trend may be slowly ending.
I have seldom hated an FJ more... :twisted: I would have preferred a clue about "mesofacts," a term in the article I've never heard of before...
If you put "Demographic Belt" in quotes, you are simply misquoting and making the clue factually wrong.
OK, I meant to set the term apart, not to (mis)quote the article. Take out the quotes and even Demographic since it's in the category after all. It's more direct than the original, at least.

Post Reply