Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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talkingaway
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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

Once again, Alex's impression, this time of Churchill, confirmed my answer. I mean, British politician, 1941, and a top row clue is a basically WECIB, but the voice nailed it.

Too much knowledge of Pokemon had me going for "breeder" instead of "trainer". Actually, a horse breeder could be "someone who prepares horses for racing" from a skewed point of view, but people who battle Pokemon are specifically trainers, not breeders. Speaking of which, the science geek in me wanted the "evolution" clue to mention that Pokemon evolution is NOT how real evolution works. Pokemon evolution is more analogous to metamorphosis - or, in the case of caterpillar/butterfly and caterpie/butterfree, almost exactly the same.

I knew Clapton off the bat because I wrote a question involving the RnR HoF with another member, and noted that he's the only one inducted three times.

Put me down as falling for the Inferno/Paradise Lost trap. I read the former in college, and thought I'd read the latter, too...but, nope, I looked it up. Odyssey, Aeneid, Inferno, Don Quixote, and Ulysses. No Paradise Lost.

I studied the order of the presidents just 3 months ago. I should have gotten FJ! easily, but I was too impatient and tired, and I need to review that order again. Subtraction turns the question into "Who won the election in 1836?" From the election of 1788 to 1836 is 12 presidential terms. I knew off the top of my head from clumping that in the first 6 presidents, Adams and Quincy Adams were the only "failures" to only serve 1 term, so that's 10 terms filled up. So, president 7 wins 1828. If he won 1832, that means the answer is president 8. If he lost 1832, then president 8 wins 1832, and it could be president 8 or 9. From there, you can coinflip, but if you look at your list and notice that Harrison is 9, it's probably better to go with #8. Or, if you're like me, you'd forget who 9 is, but would know that van Buren is 8 from Seinfeld.

Either way, probably too much math for me to do in Think! time.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

mas3cf wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:16 pm
MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Jennifer's 4-day total is $100 more than Brian Weikle's 4-day total.

Also, I gotta get those damn Presidential dates on some flashcards.
I second the value of having Presidential years memorized cold.
I've committed them to memory, which reduced this to a simple subtraction problem.
I haven't, per se, but I've got enough background knowledge that I can manage without it in most cases; in this one knowing Jackson groomed Van Buren to take over and it worked...for one term. (That said, 1836 did help confirm it)
opusthepenguin wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:28 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:15 pm
CasketRomance wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:12 pm
floridagator wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:59 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:00 pm

. I could have taken 100 guesses and literally never gotten to Van Buren.
That's pretty bad, because only 44 men have served as president.

i thought there have been 45?
Who's to say that in all that guessing I wouldn't accidentally say at least a few of them twice?
To tell you the truth, in all the excitement, I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a 44 or 45 president country, the most powerful country in the world, and will blow your country clean up...
*hattip* It's been a long while since you've made me -loudly- guffaw, Mr. thePenguin, and that one more than earned it.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:00 pm
All but J. S. Bach in Artsy Christmastime. Bit down hard on the Handel negbait AS USUAL.
I said Handel too, but on reflection I realize the clue mentioned text by Martin Luther. Given that Handel did most of his work in England, and that the Church of England had split from the Roman Catholic Church without any Protestantism in between, I think "Martin Luther" was a hint to stay in mainland Europe.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by A Wray »

The Writers wrote:Dick Cheney, talking of this, something his daughter Mary went on to do: "I think freedom means freedom for everyone"
What was the intended response here? "Getting married to a person of the same sex"? No, I suspect what was on Alex's card was "gay marriage" or "same-sex marriage," even though that's silly, if not wrong (she did gay marriage?). Thus Ann's extremely awkward response. I don't agree with twelvefootboy that TPTB should get rid of the answer-question format, which is the single most famous thing about the show, but they should at least take care that the "answers" are written in grammatically logical ways.
seaborgium wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:06 pm
I said Handel too, but on reflection I realize the clue mentioned text by Martin Luther. Given that Handel did most of his work in England, and that the Church of England had split from the Roman Catholic Church without any Protestantism in between, I think "Martin Luther" was a hint to stay in mainland Europe.
Sure, but I think they were also hoping that someone would just know it. The Christmas Oratorio is performed pretty frequently.

ETA: And the basic TOM was that Bach was a Lutheran who wrote a ton of music for the Lutheran church.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

A Wray wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:38 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:06 pm
I said Handel too, but on reflection I realize the clue mentioned text by Martin Luther. Given that Handel did most of his work in England, and that the Church of England had split from the Roman Catholic Church without any Protestantism in between, I think "Martin Luther" was a hint to stay in mainland Europe.
Sure, but I think they were also hoping that someone would just know it. The Christmas Oratorio is performed pretty frequently.

ETA: And the basic TOM was that Bach was a Lutheran who wrote a ton of music for the Lutheran church.
If they thought someone would just know it, the title would have sufficed; they wouldn't have included the year or the Martin Luther bit.

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morbeedo
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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by morbeedo »

A Wray wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:38 pm
The Writers wrote:Dick Cheney, talking of this, something his daughter Mary went on to do: "I think freedom means freedom for everyone"
What was the intended response here? "Getting married to a person of the same sex"? No, I suspect what was on Alex's card was "gay marriage" or "same-sex marriage," even though that's silly, if not wrong (she did gay marriage?). Thus Ann's extremely awkward response. I don't agree with twelvefootboy that TPTB should get rid of the answer-question format, which is the single most famous thing about the show, but they should at least take care that the "answers" are written in grammatically logical ways.
Super awkward. Like the contestant, I would have responded “get married”, but then waited for a BMS. She continued with “when you’re ... gay marriage.” Alex let her twist in the wind, then said “thank you!”, which tells us nothing!

+1 Van Buren

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by This Is Kirk! »

MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Also, I gotta get those damn Presidential dates on some flashcards.
This is something I should commit to memory, but it just seems so dang boring. I also went with Andy Jackson on this FJ, even though I figured it was probably wrong.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:24 am
MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Also, I gotta get those damn Presidential dates on some flashcards.
This is something I should commit to memory, but it just seems so dang boring. I also went with Andy Jackson on this FJ, even though I figured it was probably wrong.
If you ever get caught on Upper West Side in Manhattan, you'd better know the Van Buren Boys gang sign!

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

teapot37 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:20 pm

We are currently in the 45th presidency but the current resident is the 44th person to hold the post.
His name is DONALD J. TRUMP
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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Also, I gotta get those damn Presidential dates on some flashcards.
Probably should, too. I watch the show when I get home from work at 2AM, so wanting me to not only do math, but remember who was VP when? Not bothering. It's much easier to leave it blank and FF to the correct response.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:24 am
MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Also, I gotta get those damn Presidential dates on some flashcards.
This is something I should commit to memory, but it just seems so dang boring. I also went with Andy Jackson on this FJ, even though I figured it was probably wrong.
I would argue no more or less boring than rote memorizing anything else. But so useful for J! that it's absolutely worth the effort.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

I didn't get this Final right but I guess I take some solace in having known to avoid Jackson as not having been a veep.

This is a good example of a no-TOM Final that even so provides a path to figuring out the right answer (i.e., is not "pure" trivia), so long as you have certain information at your command, in this case, who was veep at certain years.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by earendel »

opusthepenguin wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:28 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:15 pm
CasketRomance wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:12 pm
floridagator wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:59 pm
TenPoundHammer wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:00 pm

. I could have taken 100 guesses and literally never gotten to Van Buren.
That's pretty bad, because only 44 men have served as president.

i thought there have been 45?
Who's to say that in all that guessing I wouldn't accidentally say at least a few of them twice?
To tell you the truth, in all the excitement, I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a 44 or 45 president country, the most powerful country in the world, and will blow your country clean up...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mahatma »

mas3cf wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:36 am
This Is Kirk! wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:24 am
MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Also, I gotta get those damn Presidential dates on some flashcards.
This is something I should commit to memory, but it just seems so dang boring. I also went with Andy Jackson on this FJ, even though I figured it was probably wrong.
I would argue no more or less boring than rote memorizing anything else. But so useful for J! that it's absolutely worth the effort.
It helps me to only memorize the things I find interesting, and not bother with the rest. I don't have years memorized, with the exception of certain important ones that can serve as benchmarks. I also find it interesting to know the order, and in particular which are one- or two-termers, who died in office, and which ones were never elected. That's enough to work back from a benchmark (in this case 1860/Lincoln) to get the answer (assuming you perform the subtraction correctly, which took me two tries!).

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer »

I have tried ten billion times to memorize any of the presidents pre-FDR and they Will. Not. Stick.

Hell, half the time I'm not sure that some of the 19th-century presidents even existed, they come up so rarely.
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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Andrew Jackson's rise to the presidency is a great story that doesn't require rote memorization. Well worth studying in its own right and it would have steered everyone away from guessing him on this clue.

Jackson's first bid for the presidency in 1824 resulted in his getting more electoral votes than any other candidate AND STILL LOSING THE ELECTION! If you didn't know that was possible, join the club. It hasn't happened before or since. See, although he won more electoral votes than anyone else. he didn't win a MAJORITY. This brought the 12th Amendment into play which stipulated that in such cases, the House of Representatives will choose the next president from among the top three electoral vote getters, in this case Andrew Jackson (99 electoral votes), John Quincy Adams (84), and William H. Crawford (40). (The representatives do not make this choice freely but as guided by votes of delegations from each state. Or something. It gets confusing and need not detain us.)

This left Henry Clay (38 electoral votes), who despised Jackson, with some free time to throw his weight behind the Adams candidacy. Adams won the presidency and Clay became Secretary of State. Jackson was furious and accused the two of making a "corrupt bargain." But he didn't just get mad, he got even. In 1828 Jackson came back to cleanly defeat J. Q. Adams by winning a majority of both the popular and electoral vote. He reigned for 2 full terms.

If you know this colorful history, you know that Jackson did not ascend from the vice presidency. The next logical possibility for this FJ, if you know approximate dates rather than having them down cold, is Martin Van Buren. Van Buren was Jackson's George H. W. Bush, effectively an attempt to continue a popular president's agenda into a third term. Van Buren was sometimes referred to as The Mistletoe President because he lived parasitically off of Old Hickory.

Anyway, that's what went through my head that caused me to settle on Van Buren with some confidence.

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker »

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:44 am
I have tried ten billion times to memorize any of the presidents pre-FDR and they Will. Not. Stick.

Hell, half the time I'm not sure that some of the 19th-century presidents even existed, they come up so rarely.
Try not to memorize all of them at once. Take them in chunks.

Let's start with Presidents elected in years ending in 0. There's 5 terms in between each 20 years, so it might make it easier to fill in the gaps. Once we have the framework in place, you can then work on the years between some of these Presidents.

Jefferson 1801-1809 (3rd President)
Monroe 1817-1825 (5th President)
William Henry Harrison 1841 (9th President)
Lincoln 1861-1865 (16th President)
Garfield 1881 (20th President)
McKinley 1897-1901 (25th President)
Harding 1921-1923 (29th President)
FDR 1933-1945 (32nd President)
JFK 1961-1963 (35th President)
Reagan 1981-1989 (40th President)
GW Bush 2001-2009 (43rd President)


Do you notice anything in common between say, WHH and JFK with regards to these Presidents?
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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty »

Van Buren was president during the Panic of 1837. It's unlikely he had much to do with its happening, but it did contribute to his being a one-termer.
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Re: Monday, December 9, 2019 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by TenPoundHammer »

1stlvlthinker wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:42 am
Do you notice anything in common between say, WHH and JFK with regards to these Presidents?
No.

I can't even remember out of eight planets which is the largest.
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