Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

User avatar
Volante
JBOARDIE OF THE MONTH!
Posts: 6618
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:40 pm

Bamaman wrote:...A lot of stand and stares in DJ, that ate up a lot of time. I wish they had finished the Shakespeare movie, the first three were pretty simple....
alamble wrote:I wish we'd gotten to the last two clues in Movies Based on Shakespeare. Forbidden Planet and Throne of Blood seemed rather obscure (especially considering Forbidden Planet's relationship to the actual story of The Tempest is pretty tenuous if memory serves) I wonder what else was on the list.

Got Manhattan in about 10 seconds. Kinda surprised it was a TS, though I suppose if you've not visited New York, maybe it's easy to forget that Manhattan's a big ol' island?
I wouldn't really consider knowing what Forbidden Planet and Throne of Blood were based on "simple." Throne of Blood isn't exactly one of Kurosawa's bigger titles. I precalled 'Ran' for it, and I still would've put that at the $1600 slot and it, well, IS King Lear. Throne of Blood is more liberally interpreted. And Forbidden Planet for The Tempest... that's just impressive. (For the record, I swept those three...and I own those mentioned in this paragraph on DVD :D )

Kiss Me, Kate should've been an $800 in there...I don't know what else...
Actually, this is how I'd probably have written that one:

"O" ; "West Side Story" ; "Kiss Me, Kate" ; "Ran"* ; "Forbidden Planet" (*"Throne of Blood" acceptable if you want to try giving people a TOM, but where Shakespeare's concerned, bloody royalty doesn't exactly narrow things down. It could easily be Richard III just going on that. )

As far as Final, My brain went NYC -> Long Island...and locked on hard. Totally forgot Manhattan was separate (and...well...Long Island is HUGE, but I misvisualized it. In fact, I was *visualizing* Manhattan the whole time apparently). :oops:

Incidentally, a quick adaptation list for Shakes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_on_screen
Boys from Syracuse, based on the difficulty they were showing, could easily have been a $1600 or $2000 clue...

karoliner
Valued Contributor
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:35 am

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by karoliner » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:01 am

Volante wrote: I wouldn't really consider knowing what Forbidden Planet and Throne of Blood were based on "simple." Throne of Blood isn't exactly one of Kurosawa's bigger titles. I precalled 'Ran' for it, and I still would've put that at the $1600 slot and it, well, IS King Lear. Throne of Blood is more liberally interpreted. And Forbidden Planet for The Tempest... that's just impressive. (For the record, I swept those three...and I own those mentioned in this paragraph on DVD :D )

Kiss Me, Kate should've been an $800 in there...I don't know what else...
Actually, this is how I'd probably have written that one:

"O" ; "West Side Story" ; "Kiss Me, Kate" ; "Ran"* ; "Forbidden Planet" (*"Throne of Blood" acceptable if you want to try giving people a TOM, but where Shakespeare's concerned, bloody royalty doesn't exactly narrow things down. It could easily be Richard III just going on that. )
Richard III was my first guess. Then I thought of Macbeth and decided it fits better the TOM of blood, as it's more visually bloody. For Forbidden Planet I just thought of the Tempest right away and for no reason felt quite confident.

I thought Kiss Me Kate is much more famous than those two? More obvious TOM too. I was hoping for My Own Private Idaho.

User avatar
Lefty
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 851
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:49 pm

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:17 am

For me, the thing most strongly indicating Macbeth over its rivals was its board placement ($800).

23 square miles is the number I associated with Manhattan, but that is probably the stat for New York county, including Marble Hill. Anyway, 22 sounded close enough.
I'm smart and I want respect.

User avatar
Sage on the Hudson
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:32 am
Location: Croton-on-Hudson, NY

WHO IS MANHATTAN, GANDHI?

Post by Sage on the Hudson » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:12 am

TenPoundHammer wrote:I knew Ambassadors would be tough when $400 was "embassy cables".
And why shouldn't an acceptable response be communiqué?


alamble wrote:Forbidden Planet and Throne of Blood seemed rather obscure (especially considering Forbidden Planet's relationship to the actual story of The Tempest is pretty tenuous if memory serves) I wonder what else was on the list.
The general situation, if not plot, and several major characters in FORBIDDEN PLANET are, in fact, fairly close analogs to those in The Tempest:

Prospero = Dr Morbius
Miranda = Altaira
Ariel = Robby the Robot
Caliban = the Monster from the Id

One of the problems with the film is that it really owes more to Othello than The Tempest, in that it's a tale about consuming jealousy (in FORBIDDEN PLANET a red-eyed, rather than green-eyed, monster), but there's precious little feeling or sense of that in the movie. That's why it fails as drama, even as it remains fascinating in so many other ways).

Brandon wrote:I noticed that they accepted his answer that Dobrynin was the RUSSIAN ambassador to the U.S., not the SOVIET ambassador, which is what his title really was. Does Jeopardy! normally allow "Russian" and "Soviet" to be used interchangeably? Confusing the two in everyday speech has always been kind of a pet peeve of mine :P
Well, Dobrynin was Russian, born and raised in the Moscow Oblast, so one could fairly call him the Russian Ambassador to the U.S., even if it omits the name of the country he was actually representing.

Volante wrote:Totally forgot Manhattan was separate (and...well...Long Island is HUGE, but I misvisualized it. In fact, I was *visualizing* Manhattan the whole time
apparently). :oops:
Long Island is, in fact, the largest and most populous island in the continental U.S. (dwarfed, of course, by several of the Hawai'ian Islands and, more importantly, the Aleutians. I should think that Kodiak is the largest island that's belongs to the United States).

seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 6332
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: WHO IS MANHATTAN, GANDHI?

Post by seaborgium » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:06 am

Sage on the Hudson wrote:
TenPoundHammer wrote:I knew Ambassadors would be tough when $400 was "embassy cables".
And why shouldn't an acceptable response be communiqué?

The clue said something about the term being outdated.
Sage on the Hudson wrote:Long Island is, in fact, the largest and most populous island in the continental U.S. (dwarfed, of course, by several of the Hawai'ian Islands and, more importantly, the Aleutians. I should think that Kodiak is the largest island that's belongs to the United States).
Kodiak is second to the "big island" of Hawaii. And that is the only Hawaiian island bigger than Long Island. The other larger islands in U.S. possession are Alaskan islands (not all Aleutians; in fact, Unimak is the only Aleutian in the top 10) and Puerto Rico.
Last edited by seaborgium on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
marpocky
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:34 pm
Location: Suzhou, China

Re: WHO IS MANHATTAN, GANDHI?

Post by marpocky » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:14 am

Sage on the Hudson wrote:
Volante wrote:Totally forgot Manhattan was separate (and...well...Long Island is HUGE, but I misvisualized it. In fact, I was *visualizing* Manhattan the whole time
apparently). :oops:
Long Island is, in fact, the largest and most populous island in the continental U.S. (dwarfed, of course, by several of the Hawai'ian Islands and, more importantly, the Aleutians. I should think that Kodiak is the largest island that's belongs to the United States).
Interesting notion.

seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 6332
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: WHO IS MANHATTAN, GANDHI?

Post by seaborgium » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:35 am

marpocky wrote:
Sage on the Hudson wrote:
Volante wrote:Totally forgot Manhattan was separate (and...well...Long Island is HUGE, but I misvisualized it. In fact, I was *visualizing* Manhattan the whole time
apparently). :oops:
Long Island is, in fact, the largest and most populous island in the continental U.S. (dwarfed, of course, by several of the Hawai'ian Islands and, more importantly, the Aleutians. I should think that Kodiak is the largest island that's belongs to the United States).
Interesting notion.
Maybe "contiguous" would have been preferable, but there are better things in that post to pick at (at least there were before I got to them in my previous post).

John Boy
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2480
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:11 am

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by John Boy » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:44 am

Let's just say that in the past couple of weeks I've had what I thought were some excellent, excellent gets in FJs that other people have considered harder ones. And I have also bit the big one on any number of FJs that other people have considered softballs (and which in retrospect seemed really obvious). Today was clearly another example of the latter, as my mental scan of populous islands never left Asia, and certainly never came close to Manhattan. Smoke in your pipe and put that in. Don't know what's going on with this trend but it feels odd, like some Bizarro alternate universe.

Apart from that, all I can say is that that was a sad way for Dennis to lose. One more contestant who knows a lot of the material but has no clue how to wager. Oh well.

Congrats to Margie, and let's see if she can stop the carousel and repeat tonight.

User avatar
alietr
Site Admin
Posts: 6675
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:03 am

There have been a shocking number of games in the last few weeks that were decided by bad wagering. It has been a distressing trend.

User avatar
OntarioQuizzer
Lots and Lots of Interviews
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:01 am

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:05 am

Lefty wrote:For me, the thing most strongly indicating Macbeth over its rivals was its board placement ($800).

23 square miles is the number I associated with Manhattan, but that is probably the stat for New York county, including Marble Hill. Anyway, 22 sounded close enough.
I knew Manhattan was small; looking up more info afterwards revealed that it's 22.92 square miles, so your number of 23 is technically closer. :)

As soon as I saw the game I knew it would be an interesting night for my guest blog over at Jeanie's blog to get posted. I think Dennis could have stood to have known its contents.
Andy Saunders
Moderator, #JeopardyLivePanel
Host, Complete The List
J! Archive Founding Archivist
Site Admin - The Jeopardy! Fan

User avatar
OntarioQuizzer
Lots and Lots of Interviews
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:01 am

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OntarioQuizzer » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:09 am

I feel as though the show's clue writers have harped on "Manhattan is an island" more times than we can remember over the past few seasons. It might behoove contestants to remember that going onto the show in the future.
Andy Saunders
Moderator, #JeopardyLivePanel
Host, Complete The List
J! Archive Founding Archivist
Site Admin - The Jeopardy! Fan

User avatar
nserven
At the Clam Shack
Posts: 929
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:05 pm
Location: Greenfield, MA

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by nserven » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:12 am

The minuscule area had me thinking the island was part of a metropolis, and the year somehow pointed me to the U.S. Manhattan came to me right away.

User avatar
OrangeSAM
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2041
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:00 pm

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OrangeSAM » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:58 am

xxaaaxx wrote:
alamble wrote:Got Manhattan in about 10 seconds. Kinda surprised it was a TS, though I suppose if you've not visited New York, maybe it's easy to forget that Manhattan's a big ol' island?
Maybe most people don't realize just how small an island Manhattan is? That, or they just assumed they were looking for a country.
I got lucky on this one. I was stuck on Hong Kong for the first half of the think music, but then recalled the approximate size of Manhattan from an article I'd read earlier in the day. :D
OCSam

User avatar
marpocky
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:34 pm
Location: Suzhou, China

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by marpocky » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:20 pm

Hong Kong is certainly tempting neg bait, being 31 sq. mi. (close enough that if you didn't know the exact figures you wouldn't rule it out), and having a population over a million. The 1880 figure didn't even seem counterindicative, since the most recent British lease was in 1898, I figured it could have easily reached a million by then. However, then and now, there is far more population in Kowloon/NT on the mainland.

Related questions:

What's the smallest island with population over 10 million? 100 million?

seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 6332
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:56 pm

marpocky wrote:Related questions:

What's the smallest island with population over 10 million? 100 million?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... population

Looks like Java is the latter; only it and Honshu have over 100 million inhabitants, and Java's much more densely populated.

As far as smallest island with over 10 million, just going off the listed density again, I'm guessing Salsette, the Indian island on which Mumbai is located.

User avatar
alietr
Site Admin
Posts: 6675
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:59 pm

marpocky wrote:Hong Kong is certainly tempting neg bait, being 31 sq. mi. (close enough that if you didn't know the exact figures you wouldn't rule it out), and having a population over a million. The 1880 figure didn't even seem counterindicative, since the most recent British lease was in 1898, I figured it could have easily reached a million by then. However, then and now, there is far more population in Kowloon/NT on the mainland.
From Wikipedia, it wasn't very close:

When the union flag was raised over Possession Point on 26 January 1841, the population of Hong Kong island was about 7,450, mostly Tanka fishermen and Hakka charcoal burners living in a number of coastal villages.[8][9] In the 1850s large numbers of Chinese would emigrate from China to Hong Kong due to the Taiping Rebellion. Other events such as floods, typhoons and famine in mainland China would also play a role in establishing Hong Kong as a place to escape the mayhem.

According to the census of 1865, Hong Kong had a population of 125,504, of which some 2,000 were Americans and Europeans.[8] In 1914 despite an exodus of 60,000 Chinese fearing an attack on the colony during World War I, Hong Kong's population continued to increase from 530,000 in 1916 to 725,000 in 1925 and 1.6 million by 1941.[10]

harrumph
Voyeur
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Princeton, NJ

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by harrumph » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:33 pm

I also did the Singapore/Hong Kong coin flip, thus ending my one week FJ streak. Ontario Quizzer is right, the writers like using the "Manhattan is an island" curveball.

bpmod
Rank
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:26 pm
Location: Hamilton Ontario

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by bpmod » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:54 pm

harrumph wrote:I also did the Singapore/Hong Kong coin flip, thus ending my one week FJ streak. Ontario Quizzer is right, the writers like using the "Manhattan is an island" curveball.
I've never considered that a curveball. I have always (since I was a little-bitty boy) known that Manhattan, like Noman, is an island. I just thought that HK was smaller, and, before looking it up as a direct result of this FJ!, I though that Hong Kong was only an island. Now I have discovered that HK has a larger territory than the island.

Brian
...but the senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity.

If I had 50 cents for every math question I got right, I'd have $6.30 by now.

User avatar
marpocky
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:34 pm
Location: Suzhou, China

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by marpocky » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:19 pm

seaborgium wrote:
marpocky wrote:Related questions:

What's the smallest island with population over 10 million? 100 million?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... population

Looks like Java is the latter; only it and Honshu have over 100 million inhabitants, and Java's much more densely populated.

As far as smallest island with over 10 million, just going off the listed density again, I'm guessing Salsette, the Indian island on which Mumbai is located.
Well I wasn't asking out of an inability to do the research myself :P

User avatar
marpocky
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:34 pm
Location: Suzhou, China

Re: Monday, March 26, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by marpocky » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:21 pm

alietr wrote:
marpocky wrote:Hong Kong is certainly tempting neg bait, being 31 sq. mi. (close enough that if you didn't know the exact figures you wouldn't rule it out), and having a population over a million. The 1880 figure didn't even seem counterindicative, since the most recent British lease was in 1898, I figured it could have easily reached a million by then. However, then and now, there is far more population in Kowloon/NT on the mainland.
From Wikipedia, it wasn't very close:

When the union flag was raised over Possession Point on 26 January 1841, the population of Hong Kong island was about 7,450, mostly Tanka fishermen and Hakka charcoal burners living in a number of coastal villages.[8][9] In the 1850s large numbers of Chinese would emigrate from China to Hong Kong due to the Taiping Rebellion. Other events such as floods, typhoons and famine in mainland China would also play a role in establishing Hong Kong as a place to escape the mayhem.

According to the census of 1865, Hong Kong had a population of 125,504, of which some 2,000 were Americans and Europeans.[8] In 1914 despite an exodus of 60,000 Chinese fearing an attack on the colony during World War I, Hong Kong's population continued to increase from 530,000 in 1916 to 725,000 in 1925 and 1.6 million by 1941.[10]
I agree, once you actually do the research it's not close at all. But going from 125k in 1865 to 530k in 1916 (so I would guess it was somewhere around 200k-250k in 1880, and growing fast), I would call that close enough to be worth a guess when you're standing in the studio listening to the Think music. Considering the size of most other islands with population >1 million, HK is in a pretty solid 2nd place.

Post Reply