Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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seaborgium
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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

mas3cf wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:49 pm
Comment on Yukon $200: iron is not an ore, it's a metal.
If you asked someone, "What ore is this?" and they answered, "Iron," would this be your response? That's basically the exchange between clue and contestant here (with more words involved and answer and question in the other order).
floridagator wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:27 pm
I actually recognized Joe's name when he was announced. I've read his work. But he just didn't have the trivia chops for Jeopardy.
Sure he did; he got on the show.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:46 am
mas3cf wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:49 pm
Comment on Yukon $200: iron is not an ore, it's a metal.
If you asked someone, "What ore is this?" and they answered, "Iron," would this be your response? That's basically the exchange between clue and contestant here (with more words involved and answer and question in the other order).
Yes, because iron is not an ore.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:33 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:46 am
mas3cf wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:49 pm
Comment on Yukon $200: iron is not an ore, it's a metal.
If you asked someone, "What ore is this?" and they answered, "Iron," would this be your response? That's basically the exchange between clue and contestant here (with more words involved and answer and question in the other order).
Yes, because iron is not an ore.
So you're not willing to assume that because you asked for an ore, they omitted the word "ore" from their answer because they thought it would be obvious to you that they were referring to the ore because that's what you were asking for?

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:03 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:33 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:46 am
mas3cf wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:49 pm
Comment on Yukon $200: iron is not an ore, it's a metal.
If you asked someone, "What ore is this?" and they answered, "Iron," would this be your response? That's basically the exchange between clue and contestant here (with more words involved and answer and question in the other order).
Yes, because iron is not an ore.
So you're not willing to assume that because you asked for an ore, they omitted the word "ore" from their answer because they thought it would be obvious to you that they were referring to the ore because that's what you were asking for?
If I were showing an ore, I wouldn't be asking for "iron" - I'd be asking for the name of an ore. If I wanted them to name the metal, I'd say "what metal is this an ore of?"

What you're suggesting is like showing someone a pile of table salt and saying "what compound is this?" and finding "sodium" acceptable.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:24 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:03 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:33 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:46 am
mas3cf wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:49 pm
Comment on Yukon $200: iron is not an ore, it's a metal.
If you asked someone, "What ore is this?" and they answered, "Iron," would this be your response? That's basically the exchange between clue and contestant here (with more words involved and answer and question in the other order).
Yes, because iron is not an ore.
So you're not willing to assume that because you asked for an ore, they omitted the word "ore" from their answer because they thought it would be obvious to you that they were referring to the ore because that's what you were asking for?
If I were showing an ore, I wouldn't be asking for "iron" - I'd be asking for the name of an ore. If I wanted them to name the metal, I'd say "what metal is this an ore of?"

What you're suggesting is like showing someone a pile of table salt and saying "what compound is this?" and finding "sodium" acceptable.
No, what I'm suggesting is like showing someone a pile of table salt and saying "what chloride is this?" and finding "sodium" acceptable.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:33 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:24 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:03 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:33 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:46 am


If you asked someone, "What ore is this?" and they answered, "Iron," would this be your response? That's basically the exchange between clue and contestant here (with more words involved and answer and question in the other order).
Yes, because iron is not an ore.
So you're not willing to assume that because you asked for an ore, they omitted the word "ore" from their answer because they thought it would be obvious to you that they were referring to the ore because that's what you were asking for?
If I were showing an ore, I wouldn't be asking for "iron" - I'd be asking for the name of an ore. If I wanted them to name the metal, I'd say "what metal is this an ore of?"

What you're suggesting is like showing someone a pile of table salt and saying "what compound is this?" and finding "sodium" acceptable.
No, what I'm suggesting is like showing someone a pile of table salt and saying "what chloride is this?" and finding "sodium" acceptable.
Except neither "what chloride is this? = sodium" or "what ore is this? = iron" is not how anyone would ever ask those questions.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

Jeopardy just did the latter, you're just not acknowledging it.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:51 am
Jeopardy just did the latter, you're just not acknowledging it.
Sure, they did. But they don't get to reinvent how the English language works, nor do any of us.

The writers are human. They word questions poorly sometimes. It happens.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

If a clue said "this Kennedy patriarch," "Who is Joseph?" would be unacceptable because Joseph without a last name is a Biblical figure.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:58 am
If a clue said "this Kennedy patriarch," "Who is Joseph?" would be unacceptable because Joseph without a last name is a Biblical figure.
That's different because Joseph is a Kennedy. Iron is not an ore.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:08 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:58 am
If a clue said "this Kennedy patriarch," "Who is Joseph?" would be unacceptable because Joseph without a last name is a Biblical figure.
That's different because Joseph is a Kennedy. Iron is not an ore.
Joseph is not a Kennedy; Joseph Kennedy is a Kennedy. See how ridiculous that sounds?

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:19 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:08 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:58 am
If a clue said "this Kennedy patriarch," "Who is Joseph?" would be unacceptable because Joseph without a last name is a Biblical figure.
That's different because Joseph is a Kennedy. Iron is not an ore.
Joseph is not a Kennedy; Joseph Kennedy is a Kennedy. See how ridiculous that sounds?
I don't know what your background is, but I am a Ph.D. chemist and talking about iron as an ore is what sounds ridiculous to me.

Would be interested to see a poll question on this...

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:23 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:19 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:08 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:58 am
If a clue said "this Kennedy patriarch," "Who is Joseph?" would be unacceptable because Joseph without a last name is a Biblical figure.
That's different because Joseph is a Kennedy. Iron is not an ore.
Joseph is not a Kennedy; Joseph Kennedy is a Kennedy. See how ridiculous that sounds?
I don't know what your background is, but I am a Ph.D. chemist and talking about iron as an ore is what sounds ridiculous to me.

Would be interested to see a poll question on this...
You don't need a Ph.D. to recognize that when a clue explicitly asks for an ore and a contestant says "iron," their response refers to the ore thereof. No one is talking about iron as an ore; I'm talking about iron ore as an ore, and so was Phil.

Or(e), to put it another way, one can't prove his response wasn't an adjective, so it must be accepted.

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:28 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:23 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:19 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:08 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:58 am
If a clue said "this Kennedy patriarch," "Who is Joseph?" would be unacceptable because Joseph without a last name is a Biblical figure.
That's different because Joseph is a Kennedy. Iron is not an ore.
Joseph is not a Kennedy; Joseph Kennedy is a Kennedy. See how ridiculous that sounds?
I don't know what your background is, but I am a Ph.D. chemist and talking about iron as an ore is what sounds ridiculous to me.

Would be interested to see a poll question on this...
You don't need a Ph.D. to recognize that when a clue explicitly asks for an ore and a contestant says "iron," their response refers to the ore thereof. No one is talking about iron as an ore; I'm talking about iron ore as an ore, and so was Phil.
I don't dispute that that is what Phil is talking about. My point is that the clue, as worded, prompts for an ore, not a metal - which is why I froze up on it. "Iron ore" is not even a specific term anyway. There are lots of iron ores. There is only one (notable) Joseph Kennedy.

A better wording would have been: Mining is big in the Yukon, including zinc, copper, precious metal & from the Crest deposit, the ore of this abundant metal

Would you at least agree with that?

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Picked Off »

Pays to be lucky sometimes, as Phil has proven. I matched his FJ solve, although I'm not sure I would have a few weeks ago. I just read this article:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021 ... e-himalaya

It includes the following passage:

Opinion had long been divided on whether the Himalaya were indeed the earth’s highest range. But as the British inched forward, measuring one peak after another—Nanda Devi (25,646 feet), Dhaulagiri I (26,795 feet), and Kanchenjunga (28,169 feet)—the full gargantuan splendor of the mountains slowly unfurled. Finally, the surveyors set their instruments on a distant, fog-obscured protuberance that, measured at more than twenty-nine thousand feet, was revealed to be the highest mountain on the planet. The Tibetans called it Chomolungma (often translated as “Mother Goddess of the World”); for the Nepalis, it was Sagarmatha (“Peak of Heaven”). The head of the surveying operation instead named it Mt. Everest, after his retired predecessor, George Everest, who was by this time back in England and never set eyes on the mountain that bears his name.
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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:34 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:28 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:23 am

I don't know what your background is, but I am a Ph.D. chemist and talking about iron as an ore is what sounds ridiculous to me.

Would be interested to see a poll question on this...
You don't need a Ph.D. to recognize that when a clue explicitly asks for an ore and a contestant says "iron," their response refers to the ore thereof. No one is talking about iron as an ore; I'm talking about iron ore as an ore, and so was Phil.

Or(e), to put it another way, one can't prove his response wasn't an adjective, so it must be accepted.
I don't dispute that that is what Phil is talking about. My point is that the clue, as worded, prompts for an ore, not a metal - which is why I froze up on it. "Iron ore" is not even a specific term anyway. There are lots of iron ores. There is only one (notable) Joseph Kennedy.

A better wording would have been: Mining is big in the Yukon, including zinc, copper, precious metal & from the Crest deposit, the ore of this abundant metal

Would you at least agree with that?
Sorry, I edited my last post after you had hit the quote button on it, so you might have missed my last little addendum, which I've included in the nested quote here.

I don't understand why ore vs. metal froze you up. Are you saying that with your expertise you were spoiled for choice on names of iron ores and it didn't cross your mind to go for the generic "iron ore"?

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Did anybody catch that HOOPS clue in this game, "In 1990 this Chicago Bull banged the Cleveland Cavaliers with a career-high 69 points"?

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

Time for me to be surprised by the FJ difficulty again. They spotted you 'surveyor', 'geographic' and, indirectly, 'English'. That leaves you 'Everest' and...probably everything else left is too obscure for J!
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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:52 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:34 am
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:28 am
mas3cf wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:23 am

I don't know what your background is, but I am a Ph.D. chemist and talking about iron as an ore is what sounds ridiculous to me.

Would be interested to see a poll question on this...
You don't need a Ph.D. to recognize that when a clue explicitly asks for an ore and a contestant says "iron," their response refers to the ore thereof. No one is talking about iron as an ore; I'm talking about iron ore as an ore, and so was Phil.

Or(e), to put it another way, one can't prove his response wasn't an adjective, so it must be accepted.
I don't dispute that that is what Phil is talking about. My point is that the clue, as worded, prompts for an ore, not a metal - which is why I froze up on it. "Iron ore" is not even a specific term anyway. There are lots of iron ores. There is only one (notable) Joseph Kennedy.

A better wording would have been: Mining is big in the Yukon, including zinc, copper, precious metal & from the Crest deposit, the ore of this abundant metal

Would you at least agree with that?
Sorry, I edited my last post after you had hit the quote button on it, so you might have missed my last little addendum, which I've included in the nested quote here.

I don't understand why ore vs. metal froze you up. Are you saying that with your expertise you were spoiled for choice on names of iron ores and it didn't cross your mind to go for the generic "iron ore"?
That is exactly what I'm saying! I had no idea how I was supposed to know which ore it was. Hematite? Magnetite? Siderite?

For all the many, many things I love about Jeopardy!, the way they word some of the science clues sometimes isn't one of them. An example that comes to mind is the Science $200 clue in this game:

https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php? ... t=fluoride

They asked for a compound, so after ruling out sodium monofluorophosphate and sodium fluoride for not starting with F, I was scratching my head trying to imagine what fluorinated compound they could be taking about - and they just wanted "fluoride" which is an *ion*, not a compound!

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Re: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by heppm01 »

Anyone else think that for "In Genesis 4 this murder takes place", Cain and Abel should have gotten a BMS?

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