Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Volante
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

MattKnowles wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:43 pm Some clues that I missed that I want to get next time are orange roughy, Beefeater's, Jupiter Symphony, Shrek, and gig economy.
To be pedantic, the gin is "Beefeater" (and I was 20% expecting an overrule).

Rereading the clue though, that really was a cruel one; Bombay is just as technically possible. Both London gins. I mean, I was totally confident with my Beefeater response before the Bombay neg, but it was 100% a gut pull.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

Volante wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:03 pm
MattKnowles wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:43 pm Some clues that I missed that I want to get next time are orange roughy, Beefeater's, Jupiter Symphony, Shrek, and gig economy.
To be pedantic, the gin is "Beefeater" (and I was 20% expecting an overrule).

Rereading the clue though, that really was a cruel one; Bombay is just as technically possible. Both London gins. I mean, I was totally confident with my Beefeater response before the Bombay neg, but it was 100% a gut pull.
I guess if we're being pedantic, the award is the Newbery.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MattKnowles »

econgator wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:33 pm
Volante wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:03 pm
MattKnowles wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:43 pm Some clues that I missed that I want to get next time are orange roughy, Beefeater's, Jupiter Symphony, Shrek, and gig economy.
To be pedantic, the gin is "Beefeater" (and I was 20% expecting an overrule).

Rereading the clue though, that really was a cruel one; Bombay is just as technically possible. Both London gins. I mean, I was totally confident with my Beefeater response before the Bombay neg, but it was 100% a gut pull.
I guess if we're being pedantic, the award is the Newbery.
Would you accept Newbary?
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by goongas »

For Matt's Double Jeopardy! DD, I am a computer science major and I had a brain freeze to come up with Turing. The Turing Prize is known as an equivalent to a Nobel Prize in Computer Science.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by tddeveryday »

Matt having a gigantic lead early is so normal now that I almost didn't notice that his score at halftime today, $18,600, is one of the highest end-of J! round scores I've ever seen. It's actually the highest I can think of. Can anyone confirm?

FJ was not a problem for me.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

tddeveryday wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:33 am Matt having a gigantic lead early is so normal now that I almost didn't notice that his score at halftime today, $18,600, is one of the highest end-of J! round scores I've ever seen. It's actually the highest I can think of. Can anyone confirm?

FJ was not a problem for me.
I can confirm you should have thought of this guy: https://www.j-archive.com/showplayersta ... r_id=12600
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by tddeveryday »

MarkBarrett wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:45 am I can confirm you should have thought of this guy: https://www.j-archive.com/showplayersta ... r_id=12600
I was thinking of him, but I didn't realize you could easily find end-of-J! round scores all on one page. James of course makes sense.

This page reveals that Matt has achieved a new personal best. His previous highest halftime score was $17,600 a week ago.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by yclept »

So, to play along, if Matt gets that DD correct, he is up over $50,000. His lead was extremely large. James’ 10th best score was just below $90,000. A huge FJ wager could have put him in position to crack into the top ten, something I never thought we would see after James’ run. Alas, it didn’t happen.

This was just pure domination from the start. Everyone eventually loses. But wow - very few people are giving Matt a significant test.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Picked Off »

7/7 to start the year. I can't believe it. I couldn't think of a possible alternative for FJ so stuck with Potter, convinced I was missing something. Easy if you follow J.

Another laugher for Matt, who finished with a huge score despite negging 15K. He's a machine.

Enjoying Mayim more this time around.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

How does the computer science Ph.D. student miss the Daily Double about the Oscar/Nobel/Pulitzer of computer science? Can he even go back to Yale now?
Spoiler
Yes
This appears to be Matt's response to his miss on that clue:
Spoiler
And here's more explanation by Matt:

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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante »

Robert K S wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:55 am How does the computer science Ph.D. student miss the Daily Double about the Oscar/Nobel/Pulitzer of computer science? Can he even go back to Yale now?
Spoiler
Yes
I negged with Berners-Lee as well, so...at least one of us is in good company :D
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

I said Seymour Cray, who it turns out was American. That name just sounds British to me!
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

57 R (Missed Let's Booze It Up $800 and the Bottom Two in Movie Series By Sequel.)
DD: 3/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Naming a computer science award after Turing is kind of like naming an award for light bulb science after Albert Einstein, or an award for electric vehicles after Nikola Tesla. Turing had virtually zilch to do with computer science, except for an early 1936 paper ("On Computer Numbers...") that envisioned a machine that could read and write symbols to and from a paper tape, conceived as a purely conceptual device in a thought experiment used to answer a mathematical question, and a later 1950 paper in which he introduced the concept of the "imitation game". The 1936 paper was read by virtually no one at the time and influenced no one who was doing computer work, except, perhaps John von Neumann (but even that is debatable, with no firm evidence in the historical record).

Turing never designed or built an electronic digital computer, nor devoted effort to problems in what we would today call computer science beyond those two papers, which were both very high-level and abstract. (That 1950 paper was almost as much about ESP and telepathy as it was about any real computer topic.) The closest he came to being involved with computing devices was working with electromechanical (not electronic, not general-purpose) gadgets called the Bombe(s), which were used for cryptanalysis. Turing devoted no thought to architectures or instruction sets or algorithms or compilers or memory hierarchies or any of the things that a first-year computer science student would identify as the foundational problems of computer science.

A better name to put on the award would be von Neumann, and better still would be Pres Eckert and John Mauchly. There is, in fact, an Eckert–Mauchly Award for contributions to digital systems and computer architecture. There are also a few small awards named for von Neumann, including an IEEE medal "for outstanding achievements in computer-related science and technology."

Turing was a genius, a gentle and kind individual (contrary to popular cinematic portrayals), a war hero of a kind whose secret work saved innumerable lives, and someone who was horribly mistreated by his government during his lifetime, but not someone who devoted his life's work to computers. Yet today we have Turing machines, the Turing test, the concept of Turing-completeness, the Turing award, and consider Turing the father of the fields of theoretical computer science and artificial intelligence, when we're not going so far as to call him the father of the computer outright.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

MattKnowles wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:40 pm
econgator wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:33 pm
I guess if we're being pedantic, the award is the Newbery.
Would you accept Newbary?
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AFRET CMS »

seaborgium wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:03 am I said Seymour Cray, who it turns out was American. That name just sounds British to me!
Sounds fishy to me.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

Robert K S wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:14 am Naming a computer science award after Turing is kind of like naming an award for light bulb science after Albert Einstein, or an award for electric vehicles after Nikola Tesla. Turing had virtually zilch to do with computer science, except for an early 1936 paper ("On Computer Numbers...") that envisioned a machine that could read and write symbols to and from a paper tape, conceived as a purely conceptual device in a thought experiment used to answer a mathematical question, and a later 1950 paper in which he introduced the concept of the "imitation game". The 1936 paper was read by virtually no one at the time and influenced no one who was doing computer work, except, perhaps John von Neumann (but even that is debatable, with no firm evidence in the historical record).

Turing never designed or built an electronic digital computer, nor devoted effort to problems in what we would today call computer science beyond those two papers, which were both very high-level and abstract. (That 1950 paper was almost as much about ESP and telepathy as it was about any real computer topic.) The closest he came to being involved with computing devices was working with electromechanical (not electronic, not general-purpose) gadgets called the Bombe(s), which were used for cryptanalysis. Turing devoted no thought to architectures or instruction sets or algorithms or compilers or memory hierarchies or any of the things that a first-year computer science student would identify as the foundational problems of computer science.

A better name to put on the award would be von Neumann, and better still would be Pres Eckert and John Mauchly. There is, in fact, an Eckert–Mauchly Award for contributions to digital systems and computer architecture. There are also a few small awards named for von Neumann, including an IEEE medal "for outstanding achievements in computer-related science and technology."

Turing was a genius, a gentle and kind individual (contrary to popular cinematic portrayals), a war hero of a kind whose secret work saved innumerable lives, and someone who was horribly mistreated by his government during his lifetime, but not someone who devoted his life's work to computers. Yet today we have Turing machines, the Turing test, the concept of Turing-completeness, the Turing award, and consider Turing the father of the fields of theoretical computer science and artificial intelligence, when we're not going so far as to call him the father of the computer outright.
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

Volante wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:30 am
Robert K S wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:55 am How does the computer science Ph.D. student miss the Daily Double about the Oscar/Nobel/Pulitzer of computer science? Can he even go back to Yale now?
Spoiler
Yes
I negged with Berners-Lee as well, so...at least one of us is in good company :D
+1
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Foretopman »

Robert K S wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:14 am Turing never designed or built an electronic digital computer
But what about ACE?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic ... ing_Engine
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Re: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Foretopman wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:57 pm
Robert K S wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:14 am Turing never designed or built an electronic digital computer
But what about ACE?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic ... ing_Engine
To call Turing's internal report proposing ACE a "design", as opposed to a wish list of features it would be cool for a computer to have, is generous, although historians like Carpenter and Copeland made careers out of hyping its supposed novelties. A reader of the Wikipedia article might be forgiven for thinking an "ACE" computer was ever built according to Turing's 1945 proposal, or that, failing that, Turing's proposal was widely disseminated and sparked an international interest in imitations, a la the Eckert/Mauchly/von Neumann First Draft report. But neither of those things happened. The memo wasn't published until the late '80s; NPL did eventually build computers that bore the name Turing used in the memo, but which were not by any stretch the machine he proposed, only after much engineering work that theoretician Turing had no involvement in, the biggest of which was doomed to a short life of obsolescence before it was finished; and on the whole the NPL work was overshadowed (at least in the Anglo theater) by the more fruitful work at Manchester and Cambridge that adhered more closely to the EDVAC model. Turing thought it would be nice to have a computer with 128 kilobyte memory clocked at 1 MHz but had no idea how such a memory could be implemented. With the memory technology of the time, it couldn't have been.

If few herald Turing's ACE memo today as evidence of his genius--and I think we can all assent to said genius--it's probably because it was a dead end that bore no real fruit in the computing world, it was derivative of the First Draft but with a few idiosyncratic flourishes, and was so lofty in its ambition as to be unrealizable.

Does the NPL memo deserve mention in a four-paragraph review of Turing's computer involvement? That's a judgment call. Does it substantively add to Turing's modern reputation as a father--or the father--of computer science? In my view, no. That reputation, whether deserved or undeserved, is more strongly founded on the 1936 and 1950 papers.
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