New old games in the J! Archive

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finishemzoe
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by finishemzoe »

yeah I was gonna say, did the font change? it looks so much better.
sup, i'm bliss. hope y'all are staying blissful.

trans rights.

JEOPARDY! LEADERBOARD HERE: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... mYjSS0weM/
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Robert K S
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

MinnesotaMyron wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:56 pm Really like the new font.
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:17 pm yeah I was gonna say, did the font change? it looks so much better.
What are you talking about? Something on the show? The Archive? Somewhere else?

EDIT: I fired up FireFox just to see if it was something browser-specific. Oh, geez. What the heck happened?
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DBear
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by DBear »

Robert K S wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:49 pm
MinnesotaMyron wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:56 pm Really like the new font.
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:17 pm yeah I was gonna say, did the font change? it looks so much better.
What are you talking about? Something on the show? The Archive? Somewhere else?
The archive And I liked the old font better. Really don't care for Times New Roman.
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Robert K S
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

DBear wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:52 pm
Robert K S wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:49 pm
MinnesotaMyron wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:56 pm Really like the new font.
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:17 pm yeah I was gonna say, did the font change? it looks so much better.
What are you talking about? Something on the show? The Archive? Somewhere else?
The archive And I liked the old font better. Really don't care for Times New Roman.
It doesn't show up in Chrome. Did FireFox have an update recently? I don't think anything I did should have changed how the text displays.

EDIT: I did a Shift+Refresh on my Chrome browser and boom, the weird font showed up. Let me dig in and see if I can fix it.

EDIT: OK, I think it's back to normal now.
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MarkBarrett
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

3 games have turned up listed Jan. 1986

Anyone have exact date guesses? To watch: usual spot plus Linda Shrum or Rosalie Hill

For Rosalie Hill I received this info from a FB post:
Three episodes from season two of Trebek Jeopardy(said to be from January 1986). All featuring Linda Shrum, they look to be mostly gameplay. Rosalie Hill was brought back to the show on 10/10/1986 due to a timing device which may have adversely affect her chances, and lost that day to Dave Traini.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by seaborgium »

From the earliest [edit: second-earliest] game (where Linda is in the middle position as co-champion with $8,600), I've found Geoff Fong as a psychology professor in Waterloo, Canada, and I've found a couple of LA Times articles quoting El Segundo police sergeant Bill Fleming (not Flemming), for what it's worth. It doesn't help with dating, but at least a player's name is getting corrected.
Last edited by seaborgium on Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

Going to a January 1986 calendar and crossing out the dates of the games that are in the Archive, and also the dates a day before and a day after (given that the three games in question did not have three new players on the first among them and did not end with no returning champion), and the weekends, of course, leaves fairly limited possibilities.

Assuming the three games are consecutive (they are) and all aired in January (who knows?), they either aired
Jan. 1-3 (Wednesday-Friday, taped September 4, 1985),
Jan. 2-6 (Thursday-Monday, taped September 4 and 9, 1985),
Jan. 16-20 (Thursday-Monday, taped September 10 and 17, 1985),
Jan. 17-21 (Friday-Tuesday, taped September 10 and 17, 1985), or
Jan. 20-22 (Monday-Wednesday, taped September 17, 1985).

Getting a hint as to the weekday of any particular game could narrow it down further.

Unfortunately, Alex does not bid the audience "see you tomorrow" or "see you Monday" in any of the three games, but instead makes reference to a vague "next time" in each of the three closings.

The games are:
Bill Fleming (1xer with 11,400) vs. Joe (Jose) Escarce vs. Linda Shrum
Bill Fleming (2xer) vs. Linda Shrum (1xer with $8,600) vs. Geoff Fong (2nd time in just the past week and a half there have been co-champions, 3rd or 4th time this "year" (season or month?))
Linda Shrum (2xer with $17,700) vs. Rosalie Hill (winner of this game with $9,750) vs. Kevin Spitze

Here is Rosalie Hill's existing player page in the J! Archive. I am able to fill in the "Season 2 X-time champion" to make it "Season 2 1-time champion".

#351, the game aired Monday, January 13, 1986 and taped September 10, 1985, has co-champions. That may not completely eliminate the Jan. 1-3 and 2-6 possibilities, above, but it makes them less likely.

Based on Alex's "last week and a half" language, I think January 20-22, 1986 is the best bet. Good enough for Archive entry with an "airdate approximate" note.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

Other notes from Geoff's game:
Linda gets some leniency in a judgment call by Alex in a Play Misty for Me notable song title, that wouldn't be given today.
The contestants don't bite immediately at a "down under country" Pavlov in a clue.
I would consider "Royal named Gustav" to be pretty Pavlovian for a country, too, but only Linda rings in, and too late.
Linda takes a sip of her beverage during Geoff's Daily Double wager consideration at the 3:00 mark.

Pretty entertaining game so far, and I'm just three minutes in!
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Ivoryface86 »

It should most likely be January 16-20, 1986 for the 3 episode span. We'll verify from Trevor Panno or Erick Dye-Cain to find out these episodes from the newspaper archives.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by seaborgium »

Robert K S wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:29 pm Jan. 1-3 (Wednesday-Friday, taped September 4, 1985),
Jan. 2-6 (Thursday-Monday, taped September 4 and 9, 1985)
These can be ruled out because of the infamous YouTube clip of the woman (Kathy or Cathy) who failed to phrase FJ as a question—that episode has been dated as 1/1/86, the winner was named Jeff, and Bill wasn't in the game. (He doesn't appear prominently in the clip, but it seems like it's Dan Alves, who would at that point be a 3x winner, in the champion's position.)
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

Dating games would be a lot easier if Michael Davies would snap his fingers and get "The Resource" (those collected FJ! clues) updated to fill in all the early season gaps.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Bamaman »

MarkBarrett wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:09 pm Dating games would be a lot easier if Michael Davies would snap his fingers and get "The Resource" (those collected FJ! clues) updated to fill in all the early season gaps.
Or if they started a Jeopardy on line channel.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by seaborgium »

Linda's first game has the VERMIN category whose genesis Carlo Panno told Ken Jennings about in an interview.
the relevant excerpt
Sometimes we got good ones by accident. Steven [Dorfman] wanted to get a lady friend a Minnie Mouse watch, and he asked me for the phone number for Disneyland. (I am notorious among my friends as “the Disneyland expert.”) He got connected to the Fantasyland Toy Shop, and he asked about the Minnie Mouse watch. The clerk put him on hold, and a moment later, somebody picked up the phone and said “I saw a mouse, and when you see one there are probably more and I think we need an exterminator.”

Steven latched on to it immediately: “I was asking about a Minnie Mouse watch, but do you really have a mouse problem there?”

The clerk rang off pretty quickly after that.

Steven went back to his typewriter and started working on a category he called “Vermin,” with the mice-in-Disneyland clue as the centerpiece. In order to get a verification of the clue, he called the Fantasyland Toy Shop again the next morning, right after the park opened, with me listening in. When they answered, he said “This is Steven. Did the exterminators come last night?”

“Yes, they did. I was supposed to call Patty and tell her.”

“Okay… You better call her when she comes in.”

Confirmed. It played a couple of weeks later.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

The Fantasyland Toy Shop had a mouse of the non-talking variety in early September 1985. Good to know.

These days a clue like that would cause all kinds of inter-corporate trouble.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by seaborgium »

Watching the end of the first game (where Bill and Linda tie), I recognized the shot of Bill with $20,000 blinking in the Chyron from a couple of old J! ads I saw on YouTube. One of them (or at least the particular upload I linked here in 2013) is no longer on YouTube, but you can see Bill near the end here.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by OntarioQuizzer »

Robert K S wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:29 pm Going to a January 1986 calendar and crossing out the dates of the games that are in the Archive, and also the dates a day before and a day after (given that the three games in question did not have three new players on the first among them and did not end with no returning champion), and the weekends, of course, leaves fairly limited possibilities.

Assuming the three games are consecutive (they are) and all aired in January (who knows?), they either aired
Jan. 1-3 (Wednesday-Friday, taped September 4, 1985),
Jan. 2-6 (Thursday-Monday, taped September 4 and 9, 1985),
Jan. 16-20 (Thursday-Monday, taped September 10 and 17, 1985),
Jan. 17-21 (Friday-Tuesday, taped September 10 and 17, 1985), or
Jan. 20-22 (Monday-Wednesday, taped September 17, 1985).

Getting a hint as to the weekday of any particular game could narrow it down further.

Unfortunately, Alex does not bid the audience "see you tomorrow" or "see you Monday" in any of the three games, but instead makes reference to a vague "next time" in each of the three closings.

The games are:
Bill Fleming (1xer with 11,400) vs. Joe (Jose) Escarce vs. Linda Shrum
Bill Fleming (2xer) vs. Linda Shrum (1xer with $8,600) vs. Geoff Fong (2nd time in just the past week and a half there have been co-champions, 3rd or 4th time this "year" (season or month?))
Linda Shrum (2xer with $17,700) vs. Rosalie Hill (winner of this game with $9,750) vs. Kevin Spitze

Here is Rosalie Hill's existing player page in the J! Archive. I am able to fill in the "Season 2 X-time champion" to make it "Season 2 1-time champion".

#351, the game aired Monday, January 13, 1986 and taped September 10, 1985, has co-champions. That may not completely eliminate the Jan. 1-3 and 2-6 possibilities, above, but it makes them less likely.

Based on Alex's "last week and a half" language, I think January 20-22, 1986 is the best bet. Good enough for Archive entry with an "airdate approximate" note.
I'm not so sure. Show #360 - Friday, January 24, 1986 (https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5045) says:

Ann Antell, a teacher from Ypsilanti, Michigan (whose 3-day cash winnings total $18,110)
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

OntarioQuizzer wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:06 pm Show #360 - Friday, January 24, 1986 (https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5045) says:

Ann Antell, a teacher from Ypsilanti, Michigan (whose 3-day cash winnings total $18,110)
Good point. If that's right, that means Ann Antell played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd of January, 1986, leaving January 16-20 the most probable (only?) option left. That would be #354, #355, #356.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

I added 1/16/86: https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=7212

Player pics of Linda Shrum, Joe Escarce & Bill Fleming (light color jacket):
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
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MarkBarrett
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

I added 1/17/86: https://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=7215

Player pic of Geoff Fong who played returning co-champs, Linda Shrum & Bill Fleming:
Spoiler
Image
Myron has at least one welcome to the canon to do at DJ19.

Triple trap door sprung at DJ21 and great save by Alex.
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MinnesotaMyron
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

MarkBarrett wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:50 pm Myron has at least one welcome to the canon to do at DJ19.
Ha!

Back in the late 90s when eBay was first becoming a thing, I bought just about any and every vintage quiz book or game I could find. One of them was half quiz questions and half cheesecake photos of pretty ladies, and I'm pretty sure that's where I learned who Lili St. Cyr was. I got rid of the book during one of my many purges of my shelves, and I'm now not 100% sure what the title was. I acquired a similar volume for my collection called "The Picture Quiz Book", but she's not one of the pictures. I may be conflating the quiz book with a different vintage paperback.

DJ19 is actually a really good clue to use as a diagnostic to see if a player knows how to play the game. The writers don't expect you to actually know who said the quote; the quote is just there to make the clue more interesting. What they're really testing is, can you name a famous ecdysiast with "Saint" in her name? You have to be able to parse the clues like that to do well on Jeopardy.

Anyway, we welcome Lili St. Cyr to the J-Canon.
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