New old games in the J! Archive

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by dhkendall » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:48 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:09 pm
The actual wording is "Us Tareyton smokers would rather fight than switch", which is how I knew it, because it's been cited as an example of improper grammar in commercials.
What is it with incorrect grammar and cigarettes? Does tobacco also give you cancer of the part of you that knows proper grammar?
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Jeff-thecdboy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:29 pm

Animfan1 has posted the December 24, 1986 episode on Dailymotion:

http://dailymotion.com/animfan11

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:06 pm

Jeri Anderson played Gary Tarpinian & Howard Groopman: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5752

Player pics:
SpoilerShow
Image

Image

Image
Jeri's FJ! round response:
SpoilerShow
Image

Image

I gave her "Philly" even though I don't quite see that there as the "Phully" I did see made no sense either.
How I played the FJ! clue:
SpoilerShow
I had Trenton as my sure shot and debated the pros & cons of adding NYC, Albany, Philly, Baltimore or Annapolis, so I was dead in the water from the get-go.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Jeff-thecdboy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:17 am

Animfan1 has posted the January 5, 1987 (the correct airdate for Keith Bell game 2) episode on Dailymotion:

http://dailymotion.com/animfan11

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:37 pm

Barry White played Sally Ritch & Keith Jaeger: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5754

Player pics:
SpoilerShow
Image
If you look up "vocal coach" in the dictionary there is a picture of Sally.

Image
Alex stood by Keith and called Keith his younger brother.

Image

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by dhkendall » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:24 pm

MarkBarrett wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:37 pm
Barry White played Sally Ritch & Keith Jaeger: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5754
I thought Barry White had more facial hair

And was black
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by JayK33 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:42 pm

dhkendall wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:24 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:37 pm
Barry White played Sally Ritch & Keith Jaeger: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5754
I thought Barry White had more facial hair

And was black
That's what we call "The Mandela Effect".

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by econgator » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:25 pm

MarkBarrett wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:06 pm
How I played the FJ! clue:
SpoilerShow
I had Trenton as my sure shot and debated the pros & cons of adding NYC, Albany, Philly, Baltimore or Annapolis, so I was dead in the water from the get-go.
That's a lame clue.

Trenton was a national capital and still is a state capital, just not concurrently (which the clue requires them to be). Seems really nitpicky to need to know when Trenton became a state capital and when t was a national capital. Seems a better clue would have been to ask which two current state capitals also served as the US capital.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by dhkendall » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:24 am

econgator wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:25 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:06 pm
How I played the FJ! clue:
SpoilerShow
I had Trenton as my sure shot and debated the pros & cons of adding NYC, Albany, Philly, Baltimore or Annapolis, so I was dead in the water from the get-go.
That's a lame clue.

Trenton was a national capital and still is a state capital, just not concurrently (which the clue requires them to be). Seems really nitpicky to need to know when Trenton became a state capital and when t was a national capital. Seems a better clue would have been to ask which two current state capitals also served as the US capital.
Not to mention when NYC stopped being one. (I thought it had stopped being the state capital long before the Revolutionary War.)
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:48 pm

Stuart Jacobson defended against Colleen Ligibel & Richard Frick: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5756

Player pics:
SpoilerShow
Image

Image

Image
The FJ! clue struck me as more of a STUPID ANSWERS type clue.

I'm going to double up on no new J! episodes next week with a break from archiving as well. I'll get more regular play games in this August as I still have some left. My plan is still to honor the request to bump S12 up to 100 from 98 games as well.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Ivoryface86 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:54 pm

In the Ultimate Tournament of Champions, some media files aren't even working, like Jimmy's preview intro of Manhatten's 21 from the March 2, 2005 episode and several images from March 3, 2005 in the "ART AT THE BARNES" category. Can anybody get the broken images fixed from those episodes? Thanks.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MinnesotaMyron » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:56 am

http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5747

January 2, 1987, Keith Bell's first game, vs. J.C. Turner & David Weintraub.

What a great game. This is one worth watching, or at least reading through. So much good stuff here, I can't even list all the new-to-the-J-Canon stuff.

The category "WILLIAMS" turned out to be about people named Williams. I thought maybe the S ended up in quotes by mistake.

Keith muffed the first Daily Double in DJ, but made up for it by grabbing clues at the bottom of the board as soon as he got the chance. He wagered $1900 out of $1900, but did not "make it a true Daily Double". Was that phrase in the common parlance by this time?

Sneaky Stupid Answers alert: THEATER for $200 (DJ): Chekhov play in which Treplev shoots himself shortly after Nina tells him, "I am a sea gull". I wonder if he shoots himself with a gun that is visible during the first act?

RULERS for $1000 produces a judgment call the likes of which you won't see on the modern show. Keith gives the response "Who are William III & Mary II?" and Alex confesses to just having "William & Mary" on his paper. Rather than stopping tape, Alex announces they'll look it up to see if Keith was right, and then gives Keith control of the board. Keith jumps over to THE U.N. for $1000 and hits the last Daily Double. They don't announce that Keith was right until just before FJ. It turns out not to make any difference (I think I hear Keith saying "It's right" while Alex hems and haws.), but what if it did?

That clue in THE U.N. is a Thing Worth Knowing:
In 1971, this Asian country became the only 1 ever expelled from the UN
SpoilerShow
What is the Republic of China, or Taiwan?
And clue of the game will be SPORTS for $600, a golf terminology Q I should know, but don't:
In golf, it's the opposite of an "eagle"
SpoilerShow
What is a double bogey? (A double bogey is 2 over par, and an eagle is 2 under par.)
Keith starts DJ in 3rd place. After the 9th clue of the round, he's $400 in the hole. 15 clues later he's in the lead by more than a grand. For the last 10 clues of the round, he's the only player in the game. Such a performance. Before FJ, Alex mentions that the players that came from their recent Washington, D.C., contestant search were very strong, and that Keith was a good example of that.

More later? We'll see.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MinnesotaMyron » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:48 am

http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=5759

December 24, 1986, Kathleen Hagen vs. Morgan Sloane vs. Frank Ford. This was the game after Frank Hughes retired as a 5-time champ, yet there was still a Frank at the champion's podium. I'm guessing Frank Ford had to wait in the green room until Frank Hughes lost.

So, I was about 3/4 of the way through doing the J! round, when I suddenly remembered watching this game when I was a kid, and I knew what the Daily Double was going to be. Sure enough, it was "Joy To The World" in FROGS, a song whose existence 13-year-old me learned of from this particular ep of the show. Notice that Frank got away with some very dicey phrasing of his response. That's barely a question. Coming back from the break, Alex reminded the contestants to watch their phrasing, without mentioning this incident particularly. (By the way, yes, FROGS for $200 was punctuated like that.)

There were some funny clues in this game; see PEOPLE for $400 and $500 for example. ($500 you probably don't need to add to your flashcards.) There were also a couple of pop music clues I sure didn't expect to see in COMPOSERS. $500 seems overvalued.

FICTIONAL DETECTIVES for $200 (DJ!) taught me about the Moonlighting parody episode of Riptide. (Moonlighting slaughtered it in the ratings, probably leading to its cancelation.) I was definitely a Moonlighting watcher at the time, so I'm going to have to check that out on YouTube when I get home.

Clue of this game will be NATIONAL AIRLINES for $500:
SABENA
SpoilerShow
What is Belgium? (The airline is now defunct.) It's in all-caps because the name is an acronym; the B stands for Belgium.
Have a good night.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by rjaguar3 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:23 pm

Morgan snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory by failing to follow the weak form* of Williams's rule: if you must be right to have a chance of winning, bet it all. But Morgan isn't really to blame: wagering strategy in the early years was spotty and superficial at best.

*The strong form would be: if you're going to wager so much that you'll definitely lose if you're wrong, then you may as well bet everything.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Mathew5000 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:21 pm

MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:56 am
That clue in THE U.N. is a Thing Worth Knowing:
In 1971, this Asian country became the only 1 ever expelled from the UN
SpoilerShow
What is the Republic of China, or Taiwan?
No, that is wrong. The only way for a member state to be expelled from the United Nations is under Article 6 of the UN Charter. This has never happened. Taiwan was never a member of the UN and therefore could not be expelled from it. In 1971 the General Assembly adopted Resolution 2758, recognizing that the government of the People's Republic of China is exclusively entitled to represent China at the UN, thus expelling the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek. In 1992, headlines incorrectly referred to the "expulsion of Yugoslavia" from the UN but in fact Resolution 47/1 was not an expulsion but rather a determination that the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had ceased to exist, and its membership in the UN could not automatically be continued by the Federal Repubic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro).

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by dhkendall » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:12 am

Mathew5000 wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:21 pm
MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:56 am
That clue in THE U.N. is a Thing Worth Knowing:
In 1971, this Asian country became the only 1 ever expelled from the UN
SpoilerShow
What is the Republic of China, or Taiwan?
No, that is wrong. The only way for a member state to be expelled from the United Nations is under Article 6 of the UN Charter. This has never happened. Taiwan was never a member of the UN and therefore could not be expelled from it. In 1971 the General Assembly adopted Resolution 2758, recognizing that the government of the People's Republic of China is exclusively entitled to represent China at the UN, thus expelling the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek. In 1992, headlines incorrectly referred to the "expulsion of Yugoslavia" from the UN but in fact Resolution 47/1 was not an expulsion but rather a determination that the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had ceased to exist, and its membership in the UN could not automatically be continued by the Federal Repubic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro).
You're generally correct but essentially wrong on one key point: that Taiwan was never a member. From the UN's founding in 1945 to 1971 the Republic of China was a member. Then, as now, it claims to represent all of China even though from 1949 on it only controlled the island of Taiwan (as well as some other small islands), giving it the colloquial name "Taiwan". "Taiwan" and the "Republic of China" are the exact same country, and the RoC was a UN member for 26 years.

The other facts as presented are correct and of interest to a geopolitical geek like me.
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MinnesotaMyron » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:40 am

dhkendall wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:12 am
Mathew5000 wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:21 pm
MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:56 am
That clue in THE U.N. is a Thing Worth Knowing:
In 1971, this Asian country became the only 1 ever expelled from the UN
SpoilerShow
What is the Republic of China, or Taiwan?
No, that is wrong. The only way for a member state to be expelled from the United Nations is under Article 6 of the UN Charter. This has never happened. Taiwan was never a member of the UN and therefore could not be expelled from it. In 1971 the General Assembly adopted Resolution 2758, recognizing that the government of the People's Republic of China is exclusively entitled to represent China at the UN, thus expelling the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek. In 1992, headlines incorrectly referred to the "expulsion of Yugoslavia" from the UN but in fact Resolution 47/1 was not an expulsion but rather a determination that the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had ceased to exist, and its membership in the UN could not automatically be continued by the Federal Repubic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro).
You're generally correct but essentially wrong on one key point: that Taiwan was never a member. From the UN's founding in 1945 to 1971 the Republic of China was a member. Then, as now, it claims to represent all of China even though from 1949 on it only controlled the island of Taiwan (as well as some other small islands), giving it the colloquial name "Taiwan". "Taiwan" and the "Republic of China" are the exact same country, and the RoC was a UN member for 26 years.

The other facts as presented are correct and of interest to a geopolitical geek like me.
Please note there's a Taiwan clue in the second game I did last night, too, in NATIONAL AIRLINES.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Mathew5000 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:30 am

dhkendall wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:12 am
Mathew5000 wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:21 pm
No, that is wrong. The only way for a member state to be expelled from the United Nations is under Article 6 of the UN Charter. This has never happened. Taiwan was never a member of the UN and therefore could not be expelled from it. In 1971 the General Assembly adopted Resolution 2758, recognizing that the government of the People's Republic of China is exclusively entitled to represent China at the UN, thus expelling the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek. In 1992, headlines incorrectly referred to the "expulsion of Yugoslavia" from the UN but in fact Resolution 47/1 was not an expulsion but rather a determination that the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had ceased to exist, and its membership in the UN could not automatically be continued by the Federal Repubic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro).
You're generally correct but essentially wrong on one key point: that Taiwan was never a member. From the UN's founding in 1945 to 1971 the Republic of China was a member. Then, as now, it claims to represent all of China even though from 1949 on it only controlled the island of Taiwan (as well as some other small islands), giving it the colloquial name "Taiwan". "Taiwan" and the "Republic of China" are the exact same country, and the RoC was a UN member for 26 years.

The other facts as presented are correct and of interest to a geopolitical geek like me.
The term “Taiwan” can be used to refer to the government of the Republic of China, just as “Beijing” refers to the government of the People's Republic of China. For example, we might say “Beijing controls China's seat at the UN” but not “Beijing is a member of the UN”. Similarly we can say “Until 1971 Taiwan held a seat at the UN” but not “Until 1971 Taiwan was a member of the UN”.

In some contexts “Taiwan” and “Republic of China” can be used interchangeably, but not always.

Certainly the United Nations itself, the PRC government, and the RoC government do not consider “Taiwan” per se to have ever been a member of the UN. From the perspective of the UN, China has been a member continuously since 1945, albeit represented by two different regimes: the RoC at first and the PRC since 1971.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by JeuParti » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:43 am

Hi all,

I was looking at a late-1987 game and came upon this FJ:

On Jan. 1, 1977, in Indianapolis, Mrs. J. Means became 1st woman legally ordained a priest by this church

http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2584

Was this one a simple case of "you know it or you don't"? I'm just wondering about the usual FJ thought process to get to the response and here it seems like it's more of a factoid than anything else.

Thanks for your help!

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Mathew5000 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:40 pm

JeuParti wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:43 am
I was looking at a late-1987 game and came upon this FJ:

On Jan. 1, 1977, in Indianapolis, Mrs. J. Means became 1st woman legally ordained a priest by this church

http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2584

Was this one a simple case of "you know it or you don't"? I'm just wondering about the usual FJ thought process to get to the response and here it seems like it's more of a factoid than anything else.
First, the word "priest" narrows it down; the majority of Christian denominations in the US have "ministers", not "priests". Of those denominations that do have priests, you can rule out Roman Catholicism and most (maybe all?) of the eastern orthodox groups because their priests are exclusively men. Based on that alone, you might guess the correct FJ response. But the clue also uses the word "legally", suggesting that the church in question may have (before 1977) unofficially ordained women. That might bring to mind the Philadelphia Eleven. This controversy was in the news during the mid-1970s. (It's the sort of news story that Jeopardy! might expect players to recall a decade later, but not four decades later.)

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