New old games in the J! Archive

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Robert K S
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

seaborgium wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:04 pm
Robert K S wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:47 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:38 am
who rounded up 10/31/95
Does this mean we should put in an "airdate approximate" note?
lol

(Apologies if this was a real question; it's a good joke if it's not!)
Oh. Yes. Haha. Joke. Super funny! (Goes back to talking to no one else at the party)

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cheezguyty
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by cheezguyty »

seaborgium wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:04 pm
Incidentally, one time cheezguyty pointed out a few players with three Z's in their full names. I specifically remember Melizza Zygmunt and Oz Vazquez being mentioned. Now I notice it whenever we get a new one, even if I don't remember all of them). Two I do remember are Liz Maziarz and Kids Week player Andrew Zazzera. The latter was notable to me for having all three in his last name. Now we've got another like that (and all non-consecutive Z's too!).
Zack Azzam, Suzanne Cappozzo, and Julie Vazquez-Souza are three others that I can recall.

ETA: I had to look up the last one: Cesar Perez-Gonzalez.

EATA: Just like for "Z"s, Julie is in a nine-way tie for having three "U"s in a contestant's name (the most of that letter). Needless to say, she is also tied for having the most "Q"s.
Last edited by cheezguyty on Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

seaborgium
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by seaborgium »

Robert K S wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:16 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:04 pm
Robert K S wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:47 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:38 am
who rounded up 10/31/95
Does this mean we should put in an "airdate approximate" note?
lol

(Apologies if this was a real question; it's a good joke if it's not!)
Oh. Yes. Haha. Joke. Super funny! (Goes back to talking to no one else at the party)
Okay, so my response if it's not a joke is, I think by "rounded up" Mark meant "acquired."

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jlgarfield
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by jlgarfield »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:38 am
That was nice to get one new game from GSN today not in the archive. WHAT! Are you kidding? Huh?

Just messing with you. Thanks to kingskip (who rounded up 10/31/95) I added: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6867

Player pics of Barbara Szyszkiewicz, Raymund Eich and Marty Johns:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Here is the COSTUME category: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dF2BVr ... sp=sharing

The OCR wanted to make commas into periods and a lower case L into a letter i. I’m sure I missed catching some of them.
Re: The Final Jeopardy! clue for this game:
Spoiler
It's still true today.

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Robert K S
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

seaborgium wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:37 pm
Robert K S wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:16 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:04 pm
Robert K S wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:47 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:38 am
who rounded up 10/31/95
Does this mean we should put in an "airdate approximate" note?
lol

(Apologies if this was a real question; it's a good joke if it's not!)
Oh. Yes. Haha. Joke. Super funny! (Goes back to talking to no one else at the party)
Okay, so my response if it's not a joke is, I think by "rounded up" Mark meant "acquired."
Yes

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MarkBarrett
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MarkBarrett »

MarkBarrett wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:37 pm
I added what I had of 6/24/88: http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6071

Player pics of deceased Norman Sidebottom (dark jacket), Robin Carter (sweater) & Neil Landau (light jacket):
Spoiler
Image

Image

Image
On FB I received comment with a link for a video that included the missing 13 clues. The game's gap is now filled in.

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Robert K S
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

#262, #263, and #264, which are the second, third, and fourth games of Season 2, are now in the Archive. They're each somewhat notable for different reasons.

All three games are from the single week of games where champions were put at the far right lectern instead of the far left. That change didn't last long. All three games are also from the era when they apparently over-used the applause sign and the audience would clap with every correctly-questioned bottom-row (high-value) clue.

#262 is a shitshow of scorekeeping flubs. I really have no idea what they were doing. They corrected the scores three times over the course of gameplay and the second and third times they only made things worse, favoring the returning champion and disadvantaging the challenger who was mopping the floor. As a result of the scorekeeping issues the new champ went away with less money than she was entitled to. More on this in a follow-up post.

#263 had no scorekeeping problems, but the person on the end-of-round signal button got a little trigger-happy and sounded the end of the Jeopardy! Round after all the clues had already been consumed. Alex thought it was funny.

#264 was a classic example of a contestant forgetting to phrase her Final response in the form of a question, in the era before the contestant coordinators forced the contestants to write down "Who" or "What" before the clue's reveal. It shouldn't have mattered to the outcome, because she was locked out of winning and also had a lock for second place, but she overwagered and went home with the gas oven instead of the washer/dryer and point-and-shoot film camera. After the game she shook her finger at Alex Trebek to emphasize how upset with herself she was.
shookfinger.jpg
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While archiving I also by chance paused the video halfway through the CRT paint of the clue text. This wouldn't happen in today's digital world.
paintclue.jpg
paintclue.jpg (137.06 KiB) Viewed 467 times

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Robert K S
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

Here's the rundown of the comedy of scorekeeping errors in Season 2, game 2:

Problems begin in clue 4, when Alex negs Susan for $400 on what probably should have been an acceptable response, or at least a BMS. That's an $800 swing but not necessarily a scoring error.

At clue 9, the +$100 button, not the +$300 button, is hit for Dave's correct response, bringing his score to $600 instead of the $800 it should have been.

Then at clue 11, the +$100 button, not the +$400 button, is hit for Sara's correct response, bringing her score to $200 instead of the $500 it should have been.

So going into the first break, the scores read Sara, $200; Dave, $1100; champ Susan, $300.
scoring1.jpg
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Coming back from the first break, scores have been accurately corrected with no explanation.
scoring2.jpg
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The round proceeds, and the scorekeeper hits the +$300 button twice for Susan's correct response to clue 16, giving her +$600 instead of the +$300 she was entitled to. Her score now reads as $1300 instead of $1000.
scoring3.jpg
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This error propagates through to the end of the Jeopardy! Round. Note, the only certain scoring problem at this point is that Susan has $300 more than she should have. Hitting the Daily Double at clue 26, the scores are not corrected for Susan's wager, so she wagers based on an inaccurately high score. The round ends with the scores displayed as Sara, $2500; Dave, $600; Susan, $1500, when they should have been Sara, $2500; Dave, $600; Susan $1200.
scoring4.jpg
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Standing in front of the game board for the return from the second break going into Double Jeopardy!, Alex delivers this:

"Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know how you feel about commercials, but here on Jeopardy!, we love them, because with all the electronics we use on this show, the breaks are the only time we have to make corrections. We were having some problems with our scoring readouts in the first part of the game, but the scores as they appear now are correct..."

CUT TO: the contestants, where their readouts now read Sara, $2000; Dave, $600; Susan, $1700.
scoring5.jpg
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WTH? So instead of taking the $300 she never earned away from Susan, they gave her an extra $200, and then robbed her challenger Sara of $500 for good measure. Is there any explanation for this? I considered that perhaps the judges reconsidered Susan's response of "Queens" in clue 27, utilities $500, which could account for the swing. But there is no questioning that Fresh Kills Landfill was in Staten Island, not Queens, two boroughs that are not adjacent to each other. Clearly, the judges did not just throw the whole clue out, because Dave did not get his $500 back for his incorrect response. Did the judges somehow find some reference that inaccurately stated that the Edgemere Landfill in Queens was larger? We are left to speculate. In any case, the scores are wrong going into Double Jeopardy!, with Susan now having $500 more than she should and Sara having $500 less.

So let's take stock here:
Actual scores, according to gameplay, at the end of the J! Round:
$2500; $600; $1200
Displayed scores, post-"correction":
$2000; $600; $1700

Next we have DJ! clue 11, an $800 clue, which Sara gets right, but for which she is only credited $200, bringing her score (as displayed) from $3600 to $3800. So now Sara is $200 behind what the show thinks she ought to have and $700 behind what the Archive thinks she ought to have.

Then come the last two clues of the DJ! Round, clues 23 and 24, which Susan gets in on, but for which her score changes not. She earns $200 for clue 23 and loses $1000 for clue 24, but her displayed score remains at $2700. Alex reads of the scores for the end of the DJ! Round:
scoring6.jpg
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CUT TO ALEX, WITH APPARENT EDIT: "And, that means that you'll all be playing Final Jeopardy! in just a moment, but I spoke too soon about the scores, they have changed again. Let's see, they are now correct: $4800 for Sara, $3800 for David, and $2900 for Susan."
scoring7.jpg
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So let's take stock again:
Actual scores according to gameplay at the end of the DJ! Round:
$6100; $3800; $1600
Scores as adjusted according to DJ! Round gameplay starting from the "corrected" scores at the end of the J! Round:
$5600; $3800; $2100
Scores as displayed during FJ! and upon which the contestants based their wagers:
$4800; $3800; $2900

Does anyone have any theories as to how Jeopardy! might have arrived at the final scores, based on the gameplay?

Sara was only awarded $7,800 for her win, but she should have been awarded $9,100. There was no correction at the beginning of the next game.

PS Yep, I've double checked every single clue in the show, the Archive accurately reflects what aired on TV, although what happened in the studio is anybody's guess.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Bamaman »

I wonder if she tanked FJ because she preferred a new oven over a washer/dryer? Not making it a question but having the right person is a good way to show off your knowledge and still “settling” for third place.

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Robert K S
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

Bamaman wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:36 pm
I wonder if she tanked FJ because she preferred a new oven over a washer/dryer? Not making it a question but having the right person is a good way to show off your knowledge and still “settling” for third place.
I can imagine doing that, but this was definitely not intentional (if you check the FJ! remarks). She was horrified and probably never forgave herself until the day she died.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by seaborgium »

Teresa Clavined at the end of the Thursday game, to her slight benefit. Pre-FJ scores were $12,600 to $4,800, and she bet $3,599 instead of the $2,999 that would have kept Charlotte locked out. Edit: however, if Charlotte had bet to keep Richard locked out, she would not have gotten her score above $9,000, so, to paraphrase Shakespeare: though this be recklessness, yet there is reason in't.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

I have a memory from the very early part of Season 2 of a game in which some confusion over the difference between the words capital and capitol led to one player being named champion at the end of a game, but then one of the "losing" players showing up as champion the next day.

I don't know what your source is for these games, but I hope that one turns up. I'd really like to have the specifics of that ruling confirmed.

Thanks for posting, especially the screen caps. Time for a new scrape of the entire Archive to create an updated Daily Double heatmap, I guess.

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Robert K S
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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

Nice catch with the Clavin, Sg.
MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:58 pm
Time for a new scrape of the entire Archive to create an updated Daily Double heatmap, I guess.
Were you thinking of the top-row DD from this week's new game?

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

Robert K S wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:20 pm
Nice catch with the Clavin, Sg.
MinnesotaMyron wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:58 pm
Time for a new scrape of the entire Archive to create an updated Daily Double heatmap, I guess.
Were you thinking of the top-row DD from this week's new game?
Naw, just the fact that 3 new games would mean 9 new DDs, which would make the percentages on the one that dude posted on Reddit a couple days ago ever so slightly out of date. He indicated that it was complete up to last Friday, but of course, there are myriad gaps in the old seasons, so it's a strange metric to choose.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Bamaman »

Interesting FJ wagers in the Wednesday game.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by jlgarfield »

I noticed something intresting about season 3:

Sharon MIyasato returned to Jeopardy and
Spoiler
won two games on 1/12-13/1987
after being on there 10/3/1986. Was it ever explained why she returned?

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Bamaman »

jlgarfield wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:01 pm
I noticed something intresting about season 3:

Sharon MIyasato returned to Jeopardy and
Spoiler
won two games on 1/12-13/1987
after being on there 10/3/1986. Was it ever explained why she returned?
My guess is her response in DJ22.

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Re: New old games in the J! Archive

Post by Robert K S »

jlgarfield wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:01 pm
I noticed something intresting about season 3:

Sharon MIyasato returned to Jeopardy and
Spoiler
won two games on 1/12-13/1987
after being on there 10/3/1986. Was it ever explained why she returned?
Thanks for catching that. I have linked the two players in the Archive.

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