Thursday, April 19, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Austin Powers]

I'm sure they are, but the question said South Carolina, right? Something about the flag or something? That's a palmetto on the flag, not a palm.

And it IS "The Palmetto State," is it not?

Yes, it is called a palmetto -- the sabal palmetto -- but it is also called just a palm ... the USDA even says so: http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/ht ... n.pl?32594

And a cottonwood is a poplar. A pecan is a hickory. Etc. Now, it's possible Alex, being Alex, would ask for a prompt, so really anything is possible.

[MarkBarrett]

Jeff and Vanya: Thank you for the bread box responses.

[Johnblue]

Yes, thanks for the WML video too! Game Show Network used to show those at three a.m. & it was one of the most interesting game shows ever; certainly better than J! lately.

[Magna]

The main reason I think the FJ is not good is that it punished me for knowing the exact year, while rewarding those who had it pegged for earlier.

You were punished for not considering that that there were two presidents in 1969 or not considering when the Super Bowl would have been held relative to the inauguration. That others got it despite errors in fact or reasoning doesn't make it a bad FJ!.

Meh. I got it right, and didn't deserve to. I was thinking the Super Bowl started a year or two earlier. With a clue like this, ignorance (or random guessing) pays off.

[Magna]

Are you arguing that it's FJ-worthy to ask when in January Super Bowl III was played? Was there some way to puzzle that out besides being alive and watching football in 1969?

I think this points to a recurring problem with the writing. J! has prided itself on being a quiz show, and asking about general knowledge rather than just trivia. The exact date Super Bowl III was played on, and the date LBJ left office and Nixon was sworn in, are trivia imo. This FJ asked for knowledge of one relative to the other, which compounded it, turning it into essentially guesswork. JMO.

[Onairb]

Are you arguing that it's FJ-worthy to ask when in January Super Bowl III was played? Was there some way to puzzle that out besides being alive and watching football in 1969?

I think this points to a recurring problem with the writing. J! has prided itself on being a quiz show, and asking about general knowledge rather than just trivia. The exact date Super Bowl III was played on, and the date LBJ left office and Nixon was sworn in, are trivia imo. This FJ asked for knowledge of one relative to the other, which compounded it, turning it into essentially guesswork. JMO.

The key words are 'not just trivia.' Contestants have always known to expect that some of the clues are going to fall into the realm of 'trivial' knowledge. I don't think it was the greatest selection for FJ!, but it's certainly not an unreasonable clue. Yes, it requires knowledge of exact dates, but why should the stereotypical 'Americans suck at history because remembering dates is hard' complaint get in the way? After some of the "penetrate the murky minds of the writers" clues/categories this week, this was almost refreshing!

[Magna]

The key words are 'not just trivia.' Contestants have always known to expect that some of the clues are going to fall into the realm of 'trivial' knowledge.

Fwiw, here's some typical comment on the subject by a former contestant:
http://members.socket.net/~ohiobill/quiz.htm

[harrumph]

lol @ Alex with his "tough material" comment.

Dan really showed some good comic sense with his story in the interview segment, the line he came up with for the New Yorker cartoon ' I can smell my own fear" - that's a good one.

1968 was the first year that I watched football and I was a Jets fan. So I knew that FJ was either Nixon or Johnson, and I also knew that the Super Bowl was played earlier in those years. So I got this FJ easily, but jeez unless you are a football buff all you can do is make an edumacated guess.

[OrangeSAM]

Are you arguing that it's FJ-worthy to ask when in January Super Bowl III was played? Was there some way to puzzle that out besides being alive and watching football in 1969? Or are you just saying that if you know the general time-frame, you'll have a decent shot at guessing it, so that's good enough?

Perhaps my initial response was a bit snippy, almost to the point of being snarky. (Almost.)

First, is it FJ worthy? Sure. Virtually anything is FJ worthy, as we've seen.

Was there some way to puzzle it out? Certainly. The Super Bowl currently takes place in early February, coinciding with Mrs. OS's birthday at times. Taking into account that the regular season was then three weeks shorter than it is today and that there were only two playoff rounds (not three), the championship game can be placed in first half of January. All of which can be reasoned out in thirty seconds. (Well, twenty eight to be sure you're not left with "Who was LB_?"
Full disclosure: I was alive but not yet watching football in MCMLXIX. My first definite Super Bowl recollection was SB VII so I do remember them being in the middle of January. Oh, and Nixon was President, I remember. Okay, that was snarky.

Is a good guess good enough? Absolutely. It happens frequently in this game.

I think this points to a recurring problem with the writing. J! has prided itself on being a quiz show, and asking about general knowledge rather than just trivia. The exact date Super Bowl III was played on, and the date LBJ left office and Nixon was sworn in, are trivia imo. This FJ asked for knowledge of one relative to the other, which compounded it, turning it into essentially guesswork. JMO.

I will concede that the exact date SB III was played is trivia. I couldn't have come up with that. Inauguration Day - not trivia.

[billy pilgrim]

My thought process on FJ! was - SB III was 1969. 1968 would have been an election year- Nixon won. So, NI.... WAIT A SECOND HERE. The game would have been before the inauguration, so Johnson would still have been in office. So LBJ it is. Boy people are gonna be bitchin' about this one. I Guarantee It.

[Magna]

The game would have been before the inauguration

Just curious - how did you know this? Or was it just a guess?

[Austin Powers]

I think this FJ is an interesting contrast:

http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2721

For crying out loud, it's the moon landing, you should know it is 1969. Plus five years gets you Nixon resigning and you know that gave the NY Times a stiffy.

On the other hand, what year did the Jets win the Super Bowl is much, much lower down the list of "events you need to know off the top of your head." Notice I said "the," as the Jets won't be following up on that as long as Sanchise is back there.

And as omgwheelhouse pointed out, a question a lot of people get correct for the completely wrong reason is not really a good question. And don't put coin flip questions as FJ.

[billy pilgrim]

The game would have been before the inauguration

Just curious - how did you know this? Or was it just a guess?

Because I watched the game on TV. And I wept as Nixon was sworn in. I'm old.

[seaborgium]

The responses to the Quiz Show clue were another illustration of the lemming effect (although for all I know, Carol might have been trying to ring in with "The $64,000 Question" before Dan said "The $60,000 Question"). I knew it was "Twenty One," but if I had been beaten by Dan and heard his response, I'd be inclined to hold back a moment on the rebound, in hopes my other opponent would neg correcting him.

Hey, a bottom-row video clue to which Bach is the answer! I know it well.

[Volante]

Meh. I got it right, and didn't deserve to. I was thinking the Super Bowl started a year or two earlier. With a clue like this, ignorance (or random guessing) pays off.

My train of thought:

2012. This year's was XLVI (I liked how it has all 4 letters, and there's a quirky mirror effect to it, so it stuck pretty well. Also, http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images ... 1807a7.jpg )...46. 2012-46 is... 1966, plus 3 = 1969. 1969 and that's Nixon, cause moon landing.

Course, by that time I didn't have much time to second guess myself. If I had gotten to 1969 earlier, I may have been able to think, "Now, wait, why would they ask about this oddly specific Super Bowl?" (akin to my mental question Tuesday of "Why they explicitly ask for a single museum? Aren't all museums 'single'?") but even with that I bet I'd miss the connection.

[heisman65]

I don't think you needed to know exactly when the Super Bowl was, just that it probably took place near an inauguration, as Super Bowls always take place in Jan. or Feb. (and because J! loves to ask these types of prez questions in the grey area between election and inauguration), and then err on the side of the sitting prez. It helps to have been fooled by this classic J! ploy a few times. I know I have.

[TenPoundHammer]

I think this FJ is an interesting contrast:

http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2721

For crying out loud, it's the moon landing, you should know it is 1969. Plus five years gets you Nixon resigning and you know that gave the NY Times a stiffy.

That one seems far more trivial to me. 96 point? Really? I knew the year both events happened, but didn't know that Nixon's resignation "gave the NY Times a stiffy", so I never would've put two and two together in a million years. Plus, I'm sure there're dozens and dozens of historical events that happened 5 years apart from each other, so I don't think I'd have even gotten to 1969 without you saying that.

Also, I call BS whenever they "can't read" what's on the screen. If the contestant says it's 74, then it's 74.

[whoisalexjacob]

Are you arguing that it's FJ-worthy to ask when in January Super Bowl III was played? Was there some way to puzzle that out besides being alive and watching football in 1969? Or are you just saying that if you know the general time-frame, you'll have a decent shot at guessing it, so that's good enough?

Perhaps my initial response was a bit snippy, almost to the point of being snarky. (Almost.)

First, is it FJ worthy? Sure. Virtually anything is FJ worthy, as we've seen.

Was there some way to puzzle it out? Certainly. The Super Bowl currently takes place in early February, coinciding with Mrs. OS's birthday at times. Taking into account that the regular season was then three weeks shorter than it is today and that there were only two playoff rounds (not three), the championship game can be placed in first half of January. All of which can be reasoned out in thirty seconds. (Well, twenty eight to be sure you're not left with "Who was LB_?"
Full disclosure: I was alive but not yet watching football in MCMLXIX. My first definite Super Bowl recollection was SB VII so I do remember them being in the middle of January. Oh, and Nixon was President, I remember. Okay, that was snarky.

Is a good guess good enough? Absolutely. It happens frequently in this game.

I think this points to a recurring problem with the writing. J! has prided itself on being a quiz show, and asking about general knowledge rather than just trivia. The exact date Super Bowl III was played on, and the date LBJ left office and Nixon was sworn in, are trivia imo. This FJ asked for knowledge of one relative to the other, which compounded it, turning it into essentially guesswork. JMO.

I will concede that the exact date SB III was played is trivia. I couldn't have come up with that. Inauguration Day - not trivia.

"First, is it FJ worthy? Sure. Virtually anything is FJ worthy, as we've seen." This feels intellectually dishonest.

First, you know that by FJ-worthy I mean, "is it a good question to ask", not "have they asked it". Yes, they asked it, so by your definition it's FJ-worthy. If your argument is basically that the show can do no wrong and shouldn't be questioned, then that's fine, I can understand that (gotta respect Jeoplaw), but I guess our discussion has nowhere to go.

Second, as far as what the show has asked about in FJ questions in the past, "virtually anything" is not even close to accurate (obviously).

As far as your thought process to get to the answer, I mean, good for you, you got the correct answer. It seems like a stretch for the writers to expect that to be a path to solving, as any number of factors could have been different, like when the season started, the amount of off-time between conference championships and the Super Bowl, etc. I am guessing that they wanted you to know that back in the day, the Super Bowl was played in early January. A little obscure for my taste, but fine, I wasn't watching football until the 1990s and I understand that I'll have a disadvantage on some questions. But the part that sucks (IMO) is asking for a president, which means plenty of people are going to completely bypass the trick that you're testing for and guess the correct answer anyway. I'd figure that at least half of people who get this right will get it by guessing right, not by knowing 1969 AND knowing the relative date of the game. Thinking from the perspective of a leader in a close game, I really don't like a FJ question where your best shot of getting there is a good guess.

"Is a good guess good enough?" I said, is there a way to puzzle it out, OR is the fact that you'll have a decent shot at guessing it good enough (meaning, does that fact alone makes it a good enough FJ question in your eyes). Yes, guesses happen all the time, thanks for that. And I'm not saying the show should be trying to eliminate the chance of guessing FJ correctly (would be nearly impossible). But I don't think that guessing should be the main way that most people get the answer. (OK, here's where you all chime and say how you got it legitimately and that I'm wrong that most correct answers nationwide were guesses.)

I don't think you needed to know exactly when the Super Bowl was, just that it probably took place near an inauguration, as Super Bowls always take place in Jan. or Feb. (and because J! loves to ask these types of prez questions in the grey area between election and inauguration), and then err on the side of the sitting prez. It helps to have been fooled by this classic J! ploy a few times. I know I have.

Genuinely asking here: "Err on the side of the sitting prez" just reads as "take a guess" to me, so what do you mean? And what's the classic J! ploy?

[Austin Powers]

I think this FJ is an interesting contrast:

http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2721

For crying out loud, it's the moon landing, you should know it is 1969. Plus five years gets you Nixon resigning and you know that gave the NY Times a stiffy.

That one seems far more trivial to me. 96 point? Really? I knew the year both events happened, but didn't know that Nixon's resignation "gave the NY Times a stiffy", so I never would've put two and two together in a million years. Plus, I'm sure there're dozens and dozens of historical events that happened 5 years apart from each other, so I don't think I'd have even gotten to 1969 without you saying that.

Also, I call BS whenever they "can't read" what's on the screen. If the contestant says it's 74, then it's 74.

First, you did not read the category title, obviously, because it made it clear what time frame we were dealing with. Between the Kennedy assassination and 9/11, it is pretty obviously the biggest historical event that the NY Times would get worked up about.

Second, 96 seems like a big number, and the suggestion is such a big number was used because these events were especially noteworthy.

[heisman65]

By classic J! ploy, I mean they ask about who is prez in the year after an election, but before the inauguration. I can't come up with examples off the top of my head, but I know I've been wrong more than once by guessing the winner of the election instead of picking the outgoing prez.