Second-chance tourney coming

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opusthepenguin
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by opusthepenguin »

Golf wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:02 am
opusthepenguin wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:38 pm Ok, but right now we don't even know who that person is, do we?
Well, I don’t because I don’t follow the season stats as closely as others. But unless I’m missing something, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be simple to determine.
It might be simple to determine which player will get the shaft if they don't decide to sneak that player into the next tournament as they did with Ryan Bilger. But until it's clear that this player is the last domino, you can't say they're the one. Anyway, it's looking like for this TOC they're finding a way to include players who would not have gone to any TOC under the by-the-rules-no-exceptions policy you're proposing. If so, the shafted player you're complaining on behalf of doesn't exist and never will.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Bamaman »

If Emma hadn't bumped Ryan, would Larry's runner-up been invited after Larry died?

At least with the expanded field, nobody is getting bumped by the SCT. All the four game winners seem to be included.

I agree that moving the TOC from every season to "whenever we feel like it" was unfair as some players got lucky and others unlucky depending when they pulled the trigger.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Austin Powers »

Ironhorse wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:34 pm
Austin Powers wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:16 pm
finishemzoe wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:47 am
sarisson wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:04 pm Imagine being one of the 4x champs who got passed over for the 2019 TOC because TPTB wanted a rematch between 3x winner Emma and James (not a bad idea per se, as that turned out to be an epic match-up). Not only were they passed over again for the next tournament, they might get to see not one, but two people who went 0-1 get an invite to the 2022 TOC. How do you think they feel right now?
I'd be somewhat okay with the SCT if nobody went to the TOC. I'd be much more okay with it if KJL's or JHL's got another chance, or maybe a few extraordinary quizzers from years past, like GroceV or DhuwaliaR, who only won a game or two.
No one got "passed over" in the 2019 TOC, they were already out of the running. The only reason there was any extra opening for Emma was because of Larry Martin's passing. Repeating this over and over again doesn't make it correct.
So if someone dies, the show can just pick anybody? Maybe just make it Ken Jennings the 15th contestant?
The show can pick anybody it wants as is. If they didn't want to invite Matt Amodio, nothing could stop them.
This is true, but I think people would prefer a show that followed a predefined set of rules.

I mean the Yankees could make the playoffs every year, even if they stink, as they did a few years back. People would watch because they have fans and haters! But that would also be viewed by non-Yankee fans as unfair.

So I’m not making an argument that Jeopardy and its production staff can or cannot do something. I’m just saying that it would be more fair and appreciated by more fans if it followed a defined process
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

If the first two tape days were last week, and the next two tape dates are this week, then that means the Second Chance Tournament is taping next week?
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MarkBarrett
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by MarkBarrett »

LucarioSnooperVixey wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:03 pm If the first two tape days were last week, and the next two tape dates are this week, then that means the Second Chance Tournament is taping next week?
This post says 9/14 & 9/15: https://buyavowel.boards.net/post/125670
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

MarkBarrett wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:40 pm
LucarioSnooperVixey wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:03 pm If the first two tape days were last week, and the next two tape dates are this week, then that means the Second Chance Tournament is taping next week?
This post says 9/14 & 9/15: https://buyavowel.boards.net/post/125670
So then I guess taping will be out of order.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by MarkBarrett »

LucarioSnooperVixey wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:56 am
MarkBarrett wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:40 pm
LucarioSnooperVixey wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:03 pm If the first two tape days were last week, and the next two tape dates are this week, then that means the Second Chance Tournament is taping next week?
This post says 9/14 & 9/15: https://buyavowel.boards.net/post/125670
So then I guess taping will be out of order.
Amy Schneider #13 - 10/5 (aired 12/3)
Prof #1 - 10/25 (aired 12/6)
Amy Schneider #14 - 10/11 (aired 12/20)

Such taping patterns are not uncommon over other seasons.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by brick »

Golf wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:42 pm Complete BS.
Thank you for the link.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by brick »

Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by MarkBarrett »

brick wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
Perhaps the 10/20 game will help a bit?
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by brick »

MarkBarrett wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:50 pm
brick wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
Perhaps the 10/20 game will help a bit?
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Golf »

brick wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
The SCT contestants were announced on 8/1 so I'm assuming they were informed at least a few days beforehand. Taping was 9/15-16. That's 7 weeks to prepare.

In the first three games this week contestants ranged from 30 to 38 buzz in attempts, probably slightly more than the average challenger. In the first finals game all three attempt to buzz in more than 38 times, so better there.

The litmus test will be how the two winners here fare with the harder material in the ToC. But if they're struggling to reach 40 buzz ins with regular clues..... I guess we'll find out.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Ironhorse »

Golf wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am
brick wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
The SCT contestants were announced on 8/1 so I'm assuming they were informed at least a few days beforehand. Taping was 9/15-16. That's 7 weeks to prepare.

In the first three games this week contestants ranged from 30 to 38 buzz in attempts, probably slightly more than the average challenger. In the first finals game all three attempt to buzz in more than 38 times, so better there.

The litmus test will be how the two winners here fare with the harder material in the ToC. But if they're struggling to reach 40 buzz ins with regular clues..... I guess we'll find out.
One of the contestants on Reddit mentioned knowing for a couple months before then IIRC.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Peter the accountant »

I like the idea of a second chance tourney. The number of super champs lately means a few people who may have won a game or two got cut down.

But I’m not fond of giving this tourney two spots. One is enough.

Cut it down to 15 and run the standard 2 week tournament.

Or invite the same 18 to return. The winners of each match return for two semi final games. The two winners plus the highest score return for the two day final. The winner will have clearly demonstrated their ability to beat better than average players, potentially winning as many as 4 games, which can be enough to get you into the ToC the usual way.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by econgator »

Peter the accountant wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:09 am But I’m not fond of giving this tourney two spots. One is enough.
That's the part I don't get. At best It should be one spot and that spot should be as the alternate.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Golf »

brick wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
Golf wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am The litmus test will be how the two winners here fare with the harder material in the ToC. But if they're struggling to reach 40 buzz ins with regular clues..... I guess we'll find out.
Well, I doubt TPTB are pleased with how this played out. 1 SCT winner being locked out going into FJ with the other finishing way in the red. Granted, small sample size, but still.

The material in the ToC is significantly different from regular games, not near as easy to study and prepare for. Deeper material, the standard Jeopardy books don't apply that much. It's just next to impossible to compete without completely dominating regular games.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by cf1140 »

Golf wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:10 pm
brick wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
Golf wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am The litmus test will be how the two winners here fare with the harder material in the ToC. But if they're struggling to reach 40 buzz ins with regular clues..... I guess we'll find out.
Well, I doubt TPTB are pleased with how this played out. 1 SCT winner being locked out going into FJ with the other finishing way in the red. Granted, small sample size, but still.

The material in the ToC is significantly different from regular games, not near as easy to study and prepare for. Deeper material, the standard Jeopardy books don't apply that much. It's just next to impossible to compete without completely dominating regular games.
If you look at the box score, rowan getting locked out was due to being beat on the buzzer, not a knowledge base discrepancy.

A SCT of one week is fine, though I also agree that they shouldn't get TOC spots, just a second chance to win some cash. What about all the 2 or 3 day champions who got unlucky in their final game? How come they don't get a second chance for the TOC.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Woof »

cf1140 wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:23 am
Golf wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:10 pm
brick wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
Golf wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am The litmus test will be how the two winners here fare with the harder material in the ToC. But if they're struggling to reach 40 buzz ins with regular clues..... I guess we'll find out.
Well, I doubt TPTB are pleased with how this played out. 1 SCT winner being locked out going into FJ with the other finishing way in the red. Granted, small sample size, but still.

The material in the ToC is significantly different from regular games, not near as easy to study and prepare for. Deeper material, the standard Jeopardy books don't apply that much. It's just next to impossible to compete without completely dominating regular games.
If you look at the box score, rowan getting locked out was due to being beat on the buzzer, not a knowledge base discrepancy.

A SCT of one week is fine, though I also agree that they shouldn't get TOC spots, just a second chance to win some cash. What about all the 2 or 3 day champions who got unlucky in their final game? How come they don't get a second chance for the TOC.
And what we’ve seen this week is that two “weaker” 4-game winners won their quarterfinal match against one or more opponents who were stronger on paper. Maybe some will do some advanced Sabremetric analysis of this tourney to divine what makes for a successful TOC run.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Volante »

Woof wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:14 pm
cf1140 wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:23 am
Golf wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:10 pm
brick wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:00 pm Aside from my frustration that potential new players are missing out on ten days worth of playing slots, aside from feeling that TWO Champion slots are going to these unsuccessful players… these games are just weak. It’s hard to think about people who are actively training and hoping for this opportunity, and watch these second chance players who largely seem unprepared to take better advantage of the second try at the brass ring than they were able to the first.
Golf wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:05 am The litmus test will be how the two winners here fare with the harder material in the ToC. But if they're struggling to reach 40 buzz ins with regular clues..... I guess we'll find out.
Well, I doubt TPTB are pleased with how this played out. 1 SCT winner being locked out going into FJ with the other finishing way in the red. Granted, small sample size, but still.

The material in the ToC is significantly different from regular games, not near as easy to study and prepare for. Deeper material, the standard Jeopardy books don't apply that much. It's just next to impossible to compete without completely dominating regular games.
If you look at the box score, rowan getting locked out was due to being beat on the buzzer, not a knowledge base discrepancy.

A SCT of one week is fine, though I also agree that they shouldn't get TOC spots, just a second chance to win some cash. What about all the 2 or 3 day champions who got unlucky in their final game? How come they don't get a second chance for the TOC.
And what we’ve seen this week is that two “weaker” 4-game winners won their quarterfinal match against one or more opponents who were stronger on paper. Maybe some will do some advanced Sabremetric analysis of this tourney to divine what makes for a successful TOC run.
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Re: Second-chance tourney coming

Post by Mathew5000 »

cf1140 wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:23 am What about all the 2 or 3 day champions who got unlucky in their final game? How come they don't get a second chance for the TOC.
They should be in next year's Second Chance competition. It doesn't have to be the same eligibility criteria every time. Next year maybe, 9 players who won the most money without qualifying for a TOC (like that guy with red hair a couple of decades ago, who set a single-game record but lost his third game? Am I remembering that correctly? His name escapes me though). The year after that, invite the 9 players with the greatest total number of correct responses in regular play, who did not qualify for a TOC. The year after that, invite 9 players who lost to different superchamps before last season.

I like the idea of an annual Second Chance Competition, but vary the criteria each year, so sometimes they are from the past season and sometimes they are from different time periods.
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