Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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twelvefootboy
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

opusthepenguin wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:39 am
twelvefootboy wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:17 am I was expecting a reversal on the Mallory's answer of circumference and radius. I get that it's wrong if it's not what Euclid said, but why the hell would he say that? There's no chance it isn't "both diameter and radius".
Why? To me that's like saying the circumference corresponds to pi AND to 2*pi. The one implies the other and there's no reason to state both. To me circumference was the obvious one to include, but I didn't know whether to use radius or diameter for the other.
I also was fond of diameter and circumference, although the definition is easily extended to area and redundantly to radius. My first instinct is that 2500 years ago you had to dumb it down for the hoi polloi :roll: .

Upon further review, if all you are swinging is a straightedge and a compass, you get to radius and diameter two different ways. The radius is (or can be) extracted by walking the compass around the circumference exactly six times to generate the inscribed hexagon. The diameter is the maximum stretch of the compass, maybe you use the straightedge here(?). (I don't know the correct phrasing for "walking the compass", but I think we all get it).

Good for Euclid. But this becomes an obscure clue about translations of a 2500 year old text instead of a common sense math inference.

from http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/elemen ... okIII.html

Definitions
Definition 1.
Equal circles are those whose diameters are equal, or whose radii are equal.


Thank you Captain Obvious - sorry about the 4th dimension trashing of a lot of your rules (not really) :).
Disclaimer - repeated exposure to author's musings may cause befuddlement.
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Linear Gnome
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Linear Gnome »

opusthepenguin wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:39 am
twelvefootboy wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:17 am I was expecting a reversal on the Mallory's answer of circumference and radius. I get that it's wrong if it's not what Euclid said, but why the hell would he say that? There's no chance it isn't "both diameter and radius".
Why? To me that's like saying the circumference corresponds to pi AND to 2*pi. The one implies the other and there's no reason to state both. To me circumference was the obvious one to include, but I didn't know whether to use radius or diameter for the other.
I hated this clue. I barely* see any logic in how to deduce that radius and diameter are the two specific things mentioned by Euclid, as opposed to circumference.

*The only logic I can see, in retrospect, is that the definition of circles as equal (in more modern usage, I think one would say congruent rather than equal) would use the more basic quantities, and the fact that circles with the same circumference are congruent would probably be a theorem rather than a definition. But it's ridiculous to expect a J! contestant to go through that thought process on the fly. The clue should have been rewritten or scrapped.

The best I could come up with for FJ! was Luca Brasi, but I was pretty sure it was wrong.
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Linear Gnome wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:40 am *The only logic I can see, in retrospect, is that the definition of circles as equal (in more modern usage, I think one would say congruent rather than equal)
I thought the point of congruency is that it scales. Congruent triangles don't have to have the same perimeter and area; they just have to be proportionally the same. A 3 4 5 triangle is congruent with a 6 8 10, but not equal to it. In this case, ALL circles would be congruent, but only circles of the same radius/diameter/circumference/area would be equal.
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Linear Gnome »

opusthepenguin wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:01 pm
Linear Gnome wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:40 am *The only logic I can see, in retrospect, is that the definition of circles as equal (in more modern usage, I think one would say congruent rather than equal)
I thought the point of congruency is that it scales. Congruent triangles don't have to have the same perimeter and area; they just have to be proportionally the same. A 3 4 5 triangle is congruent with a 6 8 10, but not equal to it. In this case, ALL circles would be congruent, but only circles of the same radius/diameter/circumference/area would be equal.
Maybe you're thinking of similar triangles? Geometric figures are congruent if they have the same size and shape (with the clarification that figures that are mirror images of each other are considered to be congruent).
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Harley R »

I am a really long time Jeopardy fan and very seldom miss episodes.
This one was, in my estimation, in the bottom one percent of all time.
Part of it was the writing, part the editing, but most of it was the hosting.
Alex was always quick (nearly immediate) with yes or no and one almost always had the feeling he understood the answer/question.
Ken is also quick with his acceptance or not of the question, mainly because he obviously knew it as quick as the contestants and us.
Mayim (whose name I have a hard time remembering and spelling) seems to always give several seconds of dead, tortuous air. I have the feeling she may not know, or even heard of, the answer more than half the time.
I don't think she really understands Jeopardy! and I wish she were not involved.
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by opusthepenguin »

Linear Gnome wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:27 pm
opusthepenguin wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:01 pm
Linear Gnome wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:40 am *The only logic I can see, in retrospect, is that the definition of circles as equal (in more modern usage, I think one would say congruent rather than equal)
I thought the point of congruency is that it scales. Congruent triangles don't have to have the same perimeter and area; they just have to be proportionally the same. A 3 4 5 triangle is congruent with a 6 8 10, but not equal to it. In this case, ALL circles would be congruent, but only circles of the same radius/diameter/circumference/area would be equal.
Maybe you're thinking of similar triangles? Geometric figures are congruent if they have the same size and shape (with the clarification that figures that are mirror images of each other are considered to be congruent).
Yep, sounds like I got similar shuffled with congruent somewhere in the past 40 years.
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick »

Harley R wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:36 pm I am a really long time Jeopardy fan and very seldom miss episodes.
This one was, in my estimation, in the bottom one percent of all time.
Part of it was the writing, part the editing, but most of it was the hosting.
Alex was always quick (nearly immediate) with yes or no and one almost always had the feeling he understood the answer/question.
Ken is also quick with his acceptance or not of the question, mainly because he obviously knew it as quick as the contestants and us.
Mayim (whose name I have a hard time remembering and spelling) seems to always give several seconds of dead, tortuous air. I have the feeling she may not know, or even heard of, the answer more than half the time.
I don't think she really understands Jeopardy! and I wish she were not involved.
I agree with your assessment, but last nights game also suffered from players who frequently were not competing to ring in, but were all staring at the clue with no attempt at a response. It wasn't a fun game to watch.
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Leander »

a1srvng wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:45 am "Leave the gun. Take the cannolis."
THIS clue might have gotten me to the right answer.
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by trainman »

BrigadierSolo13 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:39 pm No kidding, I thought Star Trek had a monopoly on sci-fi/whale crossovers.
How soon we forget "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

trainman wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 1:48 am
BrigadierSolo13 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:39 pm No kidding, I thought Star Trek had a monopoly on sci-fi/whale crossovers.
How soon we forget "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."
Or Doctor Who: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beast_Below
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Re: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

Leander wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 6:25 pm
a1srvng wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:45 am "Leave the gun. Take the cannolis."
THIS clue might have gotten me to the right answer.
I was surprised that it took 2 pages before this was quoted. Yes, it's Clemenza who speaks this line in The Godfather. Maybe that familiarity is what led the writers to think the clue was more gettable than it is? I knew exactly which character it referred to, I've just had plenty of time to forget his name, and the Italian-translation "mnemonic" didn't work as presumably intended. Still, I'd like to think I would have recalled the name on a different evening ...Richard Castellano, who played the part, had such a vogue after the movie came out that he was given his own sitcom, called The Super. Then he made demands and was cut from Godfather 2... :roll:
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