Time to cut off ToC...

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MinnesotaMyron
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by MinnesotaMyron »

triviawayne wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:55 pm
Mathew5000 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:50 pm
As an alternative to the two-game final match, it would be interesting to have a single hour-long game, structured with two Jeopardy rounds followed by one Double Jeopardy round, one Triple Jeopardy round, and then Final Jeopardy. In the Triple Jeopardy round, clue values would range from $600 to $3000 and there would be three daily doubles.
I like this idea, don't know how well it would work, but would certainly be worth testing. I never loved the two-day final, but never hated it either; and wouldn't mind seeing something different, but only if it was an improvement.
They could go all the way back to the beginning:
1964 Tournament of Champions - first annual
Format
7 undefeated champions and 2 highest money winners among defeated champions were invited to participate.
Three semifinal games produced three finalists.
The three finalists competed in a two-game, total-point final match. Unlike in the Trebek era, scores were not reset to zero at the beginning of the second final game.
Bolding mine.
hansenkd
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by hansenkd »

finishemzoe wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:53 pm
hansenkd wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:49 pm
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:37 pm
hansenkd wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:27 pm
Golf wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:10 pm Irrelevant. If you don’t qualify then you don’t qualify. Rating the players on perceived qualities is purely subjective. That’s why totally objective metrics are used.

You can wish all you want that a certain player be included in the ToC, but it’s impossible to prove or convince others when the objective metrics show otherwise.
I feel objectively confident in objectively saying that by any objective metric, Jackie Kelly is objectively an objectively better Jeopardy! player than Megan Wachspress.
Lol. Man look, I'm disappointed at the very plausible prospect that Jackie probably isn't going to be in the TOC like you are, but this is such a sore attitude. Megan won 5 games, Jackie didn't. Megan also defeated a very strong 6-time champion. You can't just act like she doesn't belong there, she 100% earned her ticket.
Yeah, I get it. I just resent them for not cutting off the ToC earlier when there were so many arguably less worthy 4x champs in the last ToC.
Well, nothing's been finalized yet and Jackie is technically still on the tracker. I know some people are rumoring either an expanded field or some players being held over for 2023. I wouldn't be surprised with a season as strong as this one.
This is where Harriet Tubma bites everyone in the butt. And this is obviously not on Megan. Let's say Jackie is out, but then they put Sadie in the SCT after realizing the error of their ways. She wins and both she and Megan are in. Jackie ends up being double snakebitten by Ms. Tubma, and the whole Radio City Stonewall thing is much worse than it ever should have been...
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triviawayne
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by triviawayne »

hansenkd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:55 pm
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:53 pm
hansenkd wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:49 pm
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:37 pm
hansenkd wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:27 pm

I feel objectively confident in objectively saying that by any objective metric, Jackie Kelly is objectively an objectively better Jeopardy! player than Megan Wachspress.
Lol. Man look, I'm disappointed at the very plausible prospect that Jackie probably isn't going to be in the TOC like you are, but this is such a sore attitude. Megan won 5 games, Jackie didn't. Megan also defeated a very strong 6-time champion. You can't just act like she doesn't belong there, she 100% earned her ticket.
Yeah, I get it. I just resent them for not cutting off the ToC earlier when there were so many arguably less worthy 4x champs in the last ToC.
Well, nothing's been finalized yet and Jackie is technically still on the tracker. I know some people are rumoring either an expanded field or some players being held over for 2023. I wouldn't be surprised with a season as strong as this one.
This is where Harriet Tubma bites everyone in the butt. And this is obviously not on Megan. Let's say Jackie is out, but then they put Sadie in the SCT after realizing the error of their ways. She wins and both she and Megan are in. Jackie ends up being double snakebitten by Ms. Tubma, and the whole Radio City Stonewall thing is much worse than it ever should have been...
And we know all about the SCT you can guarantee Jackie won’t be in that?
Total game show career losings = $171,522
hansenkd
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by hansenkd »

triviawayne wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:29 pm
hansenkd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:55 pm
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:53 pm
hansenkd wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:49 pm
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:37 pm

Lol. Man look, I'm disappointed at the very plausible prospect that Jackie probably isn't going to be in the TOC like you are, but this is such a sore attitude. Megan won 5 games, Jackie didn't. Megan also defeated a very strong 6-time champion. You can't just act like she doesn't belong there, she 100% earned her ticket.
Yeah, I get it. I just resent them for not cutting off the ToC earlier when there were so many arguably less worthy 4x champs in the last ToC.
Well, nothing's been finalized yet and Jackie is technically still on the tracker. I know some people are rumoring either an expanded field or some players being held over for 2023. I wouldn't be surprised with a season as strong as this one.
This is where Harriet Tubma bites everyone in the butt. And this is obviously not on Megan. Let's say Jackie is out, but then they put Sadie in the SCT after realizing the error of their ways. She wins and both she and Megan are in. Jackie ends up being double snakebitten by Ms. Tubma, and the whole Radio City Stonewall thing is much worse than it ever should have been...
And we know all about the SCT you can guarantee Jackie won’t be in that?
Nobody has announced the criteria. It was assumed it would be one-time players who were snakebitten in worthy efforts. That applies to a lot of Holzhauer's victims, but they said it would be people from the current cycle. Who knows? She should have gotten Stonewall correct. I concede. That one dominant game, though, was a thing of beauty.
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by Bamaman »

If not for a tough TS FJ in Jackie’s first game, we aren’t even having this discussion.
hansenkd
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by hansenkd »

Bamaman wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:04 am If not for a tough TS FJ in Jackie’s first game, we aren’t even having this discussion.
I suppose so, but despite finishing DJ in third with a bad missed DD, she did have the highest Coryat in that game. TS's always favor third in a close game, so maybe that DD miss was strategy. 🙄
yclept
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by yclept »

hansenkd wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:47 am
Bamaman wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:04 am If not for a tough TS FJ in Jackie’s first game, we aren’t even having this discussion.
I suppose so, but despite finishing DJ in third with a bad missed DD, she did have the highest Coryat in that game. TS's always favor third in a close game, so maybe that DD miss was strategy. 🙄
Plus, a lot of the best champions have that “This would have never happened if….” on their resumes.

But, yeah - take matters into your own hands by winning that 5th game. Is she good enough to be in the TOC? Yes. Would TPTB have found a slot for her if her first win was over Matt instead of a 1-day champ? Certainly.

Maybe they still find a way since she is seemingly popular within the community and I am sure that IS noticed. But it is perfectly reasonable if she turns out to be the swimmer who misses qualifying for the Olympics by one thousandth of a second. In this crazy cycle, a strong player who simply didn’t win Game #5 was bound to be left out.
yclept
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by yclept »

hansenkd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:57 pm
triviawayne wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:29 pm
hansenkd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:55 pm
finishemzoe wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:53 pm
hansenkd wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:49 pm

Yeah, I get it. I just resent them for not cutting off the ToC earlier when there were so many arguably less worthy 4x champs in the last ToC.
Well, nothing's been finalized yet and Jackie is technically still on the tracker. I know some people are rumoring either an expanded field or some players being held over for 2023. I wouldn't be surprised with a season as strong as this one.
This is where Harriet Tubma bites everyone in the butt. And this is obviously not on Megan. Let's say Jackie is out, but then they put Sadie in the SCT after realizing the error of their ways. She wins and both she and Megan are in. Jackie ends up being double snakebitten by Ms. Tubma, and the whole Radio City Stonewall thing is much worse than it ever should have been...
And we know all about the SCT you can guarantee Jackie won’t be in that?
Nobody has announced the criteria. It was assumed it would be one-time players who were snakebitten in worthy efforts. That applies to a lot of Holzhauer's victims, but they said it would be people from the current cycle. Who knows? She should have gotten Stonewall correct. I concede. That one dominant game, though, was a thing of beauty.
I still think it would be bad if Jackie isn’t in the field. If it is a Second Chance at getting into the TOC field, the argument is simple: “Winning their 5th game was their first chance to make it. This tournament is their second chance.” Though you are taking up several slots by bringing back the 4-day non-qualifiers from this cycle, I know.
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alietr
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by alietr »

Let x = Number of people that care about making sure that Jackie gets into the TOC.
Let y = Number of people who watch a typical Jeopardy episode.
Calculate x/y.
We leave it to the reader as an exercise.
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Volante
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by Volante »

alietr wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:08 pm Let x = Number of people that care about making sure that Jackie gets into the TOC.
Let y = Number of people who watch a typical Jeopardy episode.
Calculate x/y.
We leave it to the reader as an exercise.
I was told there would be no math...
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Re: Time to cut off ToC...

Post by Bamaman »

alietr wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:08 pm Let x = Number of people that care about making sure that Jackie gets into the TOC.
Let y = Number of people who watch a typical Jeopardy episode.
Calculate x/y.
We leave it to the reader as an exercise.
I had forgotten she existed until this thread was started.
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