New ToC format speculation thread

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Robert K S
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New ToC format speculation thread

Post by Robert K S »

Inside Jeopardy! podcast confirms format change, without giving details. We have a week (at least) to contemplate.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by MattKnowles »

I count 21 eligible players. I may have counted wrong somewhere.

15 players up on the ToC tracker on the Jeopardy! website.
2 second chance contestants.
4 people that are 4x champions not on the ToC tracker.

John Focht, Christine Whelchel, Margaret Shelton, and Maureen O'Neil are the 4 that aren't on the tracker. Jackie Kelly is the only other 4x champion and she is on the tracker.

I'm guessing they will take 17 of the 21 eligible players. The format will be 3 finalists in a two-day final. 3 semi-final games with the winner moving on to the finals. Players with 30+ wins get a bye into the semi-finals. That is, Amy Schneider and Matt Amodio. We get 5 quarter-final games where the winner and the top 3 wildcards go to the semi-finals.

Really curious what they're actually going to do.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by finishemzoe »

With 19 eligible (14 officially qualified) players, the addition of two SCT winners would make it 21. So I would have to imagine it's either 18 or 21 players. If they did 18, that would leave out Christine, Margaret, and Maureen, three players of whom Ken suggested we haven't seen the last of upon the conclusion of their runs.

So yeah, can't imagine it'd be any other outcome. Format though, I have no clue. I can't imagine it'd be the same as the SCT.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by Caboom »

MattKnowles wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:21 am I'm guessing they will take 17 of the 21 eligible players. The format will be 3 finalists in a two-day final. 3 semi-final games with the winner moving on to the finals. Players with 30+ wins get a bye into the semi-finals. That is, Amy Schneider and Matt Amodio. We get 5 quarter-final games where the winner and the top 3 wildcards go to the semi-finals.
That would give us 10 semi-finalists.

I don't think there's any chance they wouldn't take at least some of the 4xers, as there's currently only 4 women in the field of 5xers and tournament winners. Including the 4xers would double that. So I'm guessing 21 players, which means they'll either have to make it longer than 2 weeks, or give 3 byes to semis, no wild cards, and make the final a one day game. I'm thinking they'll go with option A and have the finals (2 or 3 days) on the 3rd week of the tourney.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by threearruda »

Obviously the fourth podium will be brought out to accommodate. :lol:
MattKnowles wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:21 am I count 21 eligible players. I may have counted wrong somewhere.

15 players up on the ToC tracker on the Jeopardy! website.
2 second chance contestants.
4 people that are 4x champions not on the ToC tracker.

----

I'm guessing they will take 17 of the 21 eligible players. The format will be 3 finalists in a two-day final. 3 semi-final games with the winner moving on to the finals. Players with 30+ wins get a bye into the semi-finals. That is, Amy Schneider and Matt Amodio. We get 5 quarter-final games where the winner and the top 3 wildcards go to the semi-finals.
I can't imagine the justification for bringing two SCT players if it's NOT 21. The way you spelled it out I think makes most sense. All of the 4x champs get in, no gripes. My only question is is this a solution for this season or does it make sense for every season (who knows).

I like your prediction of a bye system better than mine: Three weeks, 7 QF games for 21, 2 "wildcard" games that produce the final two semifinalists, single-elimination semi games, three-game final.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by MattKnowles »

Caboom wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:07 am
MattKnowles wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:21 am I'm guessing they will take 17 of the 21 eligible players. The format will be 3 finalists in a two-day final. 3 semi-final games with the winner moving on to the finals. Players with 30+ wins get a bye into the semi-finals. That is, Amy Schneider and Matt Amodio. We get 5 quarter-final games where the winner and the top 3 wildcards go to the semi-finals.
That would give us 10 semi-finalists.

I don't think there's any chance they wouldn't take at least some of the 4xers, as there's currently only 4 women in the field of 5xers and tournament winners. Including the 4xers would double that. So I'm guessing 21 players, which means they'll either have to make it longer than 2 weeks, or give 3 byes to semis, no wild cards, and make the final a one day game. I'm thinking they'll go with option A and have the finals (2 or 3 days) on the 3rd week of the tourney.
Ok I messed up. 10 semi-finalists doesn't work should be 9. At the beginning of the semi-finals all the semi-finalists vote to kick somebody out, Survivor style.

Threearruda's solution of "Three weeks, 7 QF games for 21, 2 "wildcard" games that produce the final two semifinalists, single-elimination semi games, three-game final." sounds pretty good.
Last edited by MattKnowles on Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by cf1140 »

11 days, on wildcards. 6 quarterfinals; Matt, Amy, Mattea get byes to the semifinals. Two-day regular final.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by opusthepenguin »

I think they're going to start the first game with 21 players at 21 podia arranged in a circle, all trying to ring in. At the end of the game, the two lowest-scoring players will be eliminated. This will continue for 9 games with 2 fewer contestants each day leaving 3 finalists on day 10 who will then play an hour-long version of the game with single, double, triple, and quadruple Jeopardy! portions. It's the obvious way.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by OntarioQuizzer »

My contribution:

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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by alietr »

I think byes are a terrible idea. There's a lot of luck involved. We've seen some contestants that we thought were Jennings-level go down in their first game. Anything can happen, so it's a shame to give anyone a pass.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by Bamaman »

alietr wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:19 am I think byes are a terrible idea. There's a lot of luck involved. We've seen some contestants that we thought were Jennings-level go down in their first game. Anything can happen, so it's a shame to give anyone a pass.
I don't like the idea of byes, either. But with a TOC with who knows how many players we may have to live with it.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by Mathew5000 »

OntarioQuizzer wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:12 am My contribution:

My first thought on seeing this was, yes, that's exactly what they are likely to do. But the only question is, how would they choose the sixth to get a bye into the quarter-finals? Obviously Amy (40), Matt (38), Mattea (23), Ryan (16), and Jonathan (11); but then how to choose between Brian and Courtney at 7 wins each? I guess they'd go with Brian based on having earned more money than Courtney, but it still would seem peculiar, in my opinion.

If they choose a byeless format with 21 contestants, then they'd have to shoot 7 episodes in a single day in order for sequestration to be possible. I assume Ken could handle that, but would it be feasible for the entire crew? Would that violate some union/guild rules?

In June I suggested a workable tournament format for 18 players without byes but it's not readily adaptable to 21.

On the other hand, if they have a 24 player TOC, there are many possibilities for a good symmetrical tournament format with no byes and at most five episodes filmed per day. For example:

The 24 players are divided into two heats. Week 1 is QF Heat 1; Week 2 is QF Heat 2; Week 3 is SF; and then two episodes (or three) for the final round. For each of the first three weeks, with 12 players competing, Monday to Thursday would be four sequestered games. The four winners and the top-scoring second-place player in each week of the quarters would automatically advance to the semis, while the three other second-place players would play on Friday for a sixth semifinal berth. Thus 12 players (6 from each heat) in the semi-finals. Monday to Thursday of Week 3 they play four sequestered games, with the two highest-scoring winners automatically advancing to the finals. On Friday, the other two winners play off against the highest-scoring second-place player, with the winner of that game being the third finalist.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by Austin Powers »

No byes is poop and I hope it is a ratings failure when people turn on looking for Mattea and it’s three people who won a parking lot dice game so they can make the play-in game in Dayton.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by MarkBarrett »

21 players plus alternate(s) seems like a big group to wrangle, but it does get all 4x champs included. The powers have to like the inspiration of Christine and the fun quirkiness of Margaret and if they're in then it would not be fair to exclude Jackie and John. Maureen could be the alternate to get the field down to 20.

A field of 27 would have to dip into 3x champs although I would not mind 9 games semifinal style with wildcard safety nets eliminated. If a big shot gets eliminated early, so be it. 9+3+2=14 games.

Do the dates of the ToC airing come into play? I've seen previous postings wondering about election day and Thanksgiving perhaps not being the best times to air a ToC game.

The SCT ends on Oct. 28th the beginning of sweeps.

October 31 - November 23 (Thanksgiving Eve) is 18 weekdays.

Six byes seems like too many.

I would not want to see or expect to see any 2-person or 4-person matches.

Whatever the format I suspect Robert will have some coding adjustments to make.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by AntmanB »

At Least its basically Confirmed Neither Tyler or Megan will be Screwed Over.

I going with the 18 person format myself.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by finishemzoe »

Mathew5000 wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:18 pm
OntarioQuizzer wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:12 am My contribution:

My first thought on seeing this was, yes, that's exactly what they are likely to do. But the only question is, how would they choose the sixth to get a bye into the quarter-finals? Obviously Amy (40), Matt (38), Mattea (23), Ryan (16), and Jonathan (11); but then how to choose between Brian and Courtney at 7 wins each? I guess they'd go with Brian based on having earned more money than Courtney, but it still would seem peculiar, in my opinion.

If they choose a byeless format with 21 contestants, then they'd have to shoot 7 episodes in a single day in order for sequestration to be possible. I assume Ken could handle that, but would it be feasible for the entire crew? Would that violate some union/guild rules?

In June I suggested a workable tournament format for 18 players without byes but it's not readily adaptable to 21.

On the other hand, if they have a 24 player TOC, there are many possibilities for a good symmetrical tournament format with no byes and at most five episodes filmed per day. For example:

The 24 players are divided into two heats. Week 1 is QF Heat 1; Week 2 is QF Heat 2; Week 3 is SF; and then two episodes (or three) for the final round. For each of the first three weeks, with 12 players competing, Monday to Thursday would be four sequestered games. The four winners and the top-scoring second-place player in each week of the quarters would automatically advance to the semis, while the three other second-place players would play on Friday for a sixth semifinal berth. Thus 12 players (6 from each heat) in the semi-finals. Monday to Thursday of Week 3 they play four sequestered games, with the two highest-scoring winners automatically advancing to the finals. On Friday, the other two winners play off against the highest-scoring second-place player, with the winner of that game being the third finalist.
I could see them giving Jaskaran a bye for winning $250,000, which is more than what most of the other players won, including Jonathan Fisher. He's also undefeated and beat 35 other players to do so.

I don't necessarily love the idea of byes in a regular TOC, but it's obvious that this isn't like any other TOC we've had before and frankly I don't know many ways that they could get a field of 21 to work. It's very experimental, but we'll see what happens.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by CyrusChan »

2CT winners are essentially 3-days champs (against ?better? competition).

Those two should play against the four four-game winners for two spots. That makes 17. All qualify for Tournament of Champions.

Matt and Amy skip the WC games. 5 winners and two Wild Card spots. There's the remaining nine for your week of television.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by yclept »

Bobby Knight once proposed that the NCAA Tournament should include every team in the country (note: With conference tournaments, that is almost true nowadays!)

So, yeah - let them all in! From the 1-day champ who earned $2,500 all the way up to Amy and Matt. Let the chaos begin!

And please don’t take this seriously :)
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by opusthepenguin »

yclept wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:24 pm Bobby Knight once proposed that the NCAA Tournament should include every team in the country (note: With conference tournaments, that is almost true nowadays!)

So, yeah - let them all in! From the 1-day champ who earned $2,500 all the way up to Amy and Matt. Let the chaos begin!
This is a great idea but it doesn't go far enough! Stop having auditions that people have to get invited to and then selected from. EVERYBODY who passes the online test gets a shot. They send out teams of hosts and coordinators to stage games everywhere around the world with winners advancing to play again. It might take several years, but at the end we'll have a TOC of the luckiest really good Jeopardy! players in existence.

Then we go back and look for the strongest players who lost to them in earlier rounds so we can stage a Second Chance Tournament.
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Re: New ToC format speculation thread

Post by Robert K S »

opusthepenguin wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:14 pm This is a great idea but it doesn't go far enough! Stop having auditions that people have to get invited to and then selected from. EVERYBODY who passes the online test gets a shot.
FTFY?
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