Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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mbclev
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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mbclev » Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:58 pm

seaborgium wrote:[I'd like to add that they've been consistent in ruling against people responding to Rhyme Time (or Homophonic Pairs) clues, when they put an S sound at the end of one word (making it plural and/or possessive) without putting one at the end of the other. For example, if a Rhyme Time clue said "canine journal," and a contestant said "What is a dog's log?" or "What are dog logs?" he would be ruled incorrect. But "dog log" and "dog's/dogs' logs" would be acceptable.
Two such instances of this that I remember are as follows:

Answer: Goldie's little deer.
Question: What are Hawn's fawns?
(The contestant who dropped the "s" from "fawns" was probably confused because "deer" is spelled the same in both singular and plural forms.)

Category: Presidential Rhyme Time
Answer: Gerald's surfing equipment
Question: What are Ford's boards?
(The same thing possibly here.)

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:00 pm

mbclev wrote:
dhkendall wrote:Because of the extra sound at the end of "bricks"????
To me, "bricks" sounds too similar to "quick" to not be considered a rhyme. (I am not interested in poetry, basically.)
It's close enough that many people who write stuff that rhymes wouldn't think twice about using S-mismatched words that otherwise rhyme, but Jeopardy keeps their definition of rhyme strict and exact, and their clues that require perfect rhymes in their correct responses are written in an attempt to ensure that people don't add letters. It doesn't always work, obviously.
mbclev wrote:
dhkendall wrote:The Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao? If I remember the clue right, the full name (Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum) was given ...
Yes, there is a Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain. The building was designed by architect Frank Gehry, who also designed the Weatherhead School of Management building at Case Western Reserve University here in Cleveland.
The museum in Bilbao is called the Guggenheim Museum Bilbao. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guggenheim_Museum_Bilbao

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mbclev » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:01 pm

Volante wrote:2. There is no "Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain." The museum itself does not say it's the "Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum", it calls itself the "Guggenheim Museum Bilbao."
http://www.guggenheim-bilbao.es/seccion ... ?idioma=en

Yes, "Solomon R." makes a BIG difference and yes, that's probably why they explicitly included it in the clue.
No, it does NOT make a big difference, because it is the same man's name on both museums, even though his first name may not be on the Bilbao museum.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:05 pm

It makes a big difference because the clue included his first name, and the Bilbao museum doesn't.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Volante » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:15 pm

mbclev wrote:
Volante wrote:2. There is no "Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain." The museum itself does not say it's the "Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum", it calls itself the "Guggenheim Museum Bilbao."
http://www.guggenheim-bilbao.es/seccion ... ?idioma=en

Yes, "Solomon R." makes a BIG difference and yes, that's probably why they explicitly included it in the clue.
No, it does NOT make a big difference, because it is the same man's name on both museums, even though his first name may not be on the Bilbao museum.
I don't...how...WHAT?

So, I guess our nation's capital is actually "George Washington, District of Columbia"?

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mbclev » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:20 pm

seaborgium wrote:It makes a big difference because the clue included his first name, and the Bilbao museum doesn't.
That does not mean a thing to me, because, as I said, the same man's name is on both museums' names, even though his first name is not on the Bilbao museum's name. (When I watched the clue, I did say New York as a correct response, but I thought that Bilbao would also have been right.)

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by bomtr » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:59 pm

mbclev wrote:
seaborgium wrote:[I'd like to add that they've been consistent in ruling against people responding to Rhyme Time (or Homophonic Pairs) clues, when they put an S sound at the end of one word (making it plural and/or possessive) without putting one at the end of the other. For example, if a Rhyme Time clue said "canine journal," and a contestant said "What is a dog's log?" or "What are dog logs?" he would be ruled incorrect. But "dog log" and "dog's/dogs' logs" would be acceptable.
Two such instances of this that I remember are as follows:

Answer: Goldie's little deer.
Question: What are Hawn's fawns?
(The contestant who dropped the "s" from "fawns" was probably confused because "deer" is spelled the same in both singular and plural forms.)

Category: Presidential Rhyme Time
Answer: Gerald's surfing equipment
Question: What are Ford's boards?
(The same thing possibly here.)
These were both ruled incorrect because they dropped the 's.' Are you trying to disprove your own point?

What the hell is your point again?

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:01 pm

mbclev wrote:
seaborgium wrote:It makes a big difference because the clue included his first name, and the Bilbao museum doesn't.
That does not mean a thing to me, because, as I said, the same man's name is on both museums' names, even though his first name is not on the Bilbao museum's name. (When I watched the clue, I did say New York as a correct response, but I thought that Bilbao would also have been right.)
How do you know it should be his first name? The Guggenheim Foundation runs four museums currently. In addition to the Solomon in NYC, there's the Peggy Guggenheim in Venice. Why couldn't the Bilbao museum be named for Peggy, or for their creepy uncle, Morton Guggenheim, who used to do stuff to the salad dressing when no one was looking?

Now go get your shine box!
Last edited by Austin Powers on Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:02 pm

bomtr wrote:
mbclev wrote:
seaborgium wrote:[I'd like to add that they've been consistent in ruling against people responding to Rhyme Time (or Homophonic Pairs) clues, when they put an S sound at the end of one word (making it plural and/or possessive) without putting one at the end of the other. For example, if a Rhyme Time clue said "canine journal," and a contestant said "What is a dog's log?" or "What are dog logs?" he would be ruled incorrect. But "dog log" and "dog's/dogs' logs" would be acceptable.
Two such instances of this that I remember are as follows:

Answer: Goldie's little deer.
Question: What are Hawn's fawns?
(The contestant who dropped the "s" from "fawns" was probably confused because "deer" is spelled the same in both singular and plural forms.)

Category: Presidential Rhyme Time
Answer: Gerald's surfing equipment
Question: What are Ford's boards?
(The same thing possibly here.)
These were both ruled incorrect because they dropped the 's.' Are you trying to disprove your own point?

What the hell is your point again?
He's trolling. He basically appeared on command earlier this week and is doing all the trolling things trolls do.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by bomtr » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:03 pm

mbclev wrote:
seaborgium wrote:It makes a big difference because the clue included his first name, and the Bilbao museum doesn't.
That does not mean a thing to me, ...)
If one selects what parts of reality have meaning and what don't, it's easy to maintain an untenable position ad nauseam...and I mean nauseam. Is this fun for you? "I make no sense and can't be made to see sense" is just as tiresome as "I don't know much and can't be made to try."

Just wow.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:03 pm

Hey Andy ... any time he posts, can I just edit the post to "blah blah blah words words"? It has the same intellectual content.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by dhkendall » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:17 pm

And now, a post actually about game content:

$800 Starting Words:

"It means to start; pronounced differently, it's the last name of a 1970s Israeli Prime Minister"

Henry rang in and replied with "What is Begin?" (pronounced the way of the Israeli PM); IMHO, shouldn't the correct answer be "begin" (ie pronounced like the verb)???
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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:25 pm

dhkendall wrote:And now, a post actually about game content:

$800 Starting Words:

"It means to start; pronounced differently, it's the last name of a 1970s Israeli Prime Minister"

Henry rang in and replied with "What is Begin?" (pronounced the way of the Israeli PM); IMHO, shouldn't the correct answer be "begin" (ie pronounced like the verb)???
Yep, he totally gave the wrong response and should have been ruled against, but I guess Alex was feeling generous. This is hardly unusual, as quite often they give credit even if the contestant gives something like more information than the clue asks for, (for example, giving more words than required in a fill-in-the-blank clue) or giving a response that doesn't match the verb tense, singular/plural, or some other small detail that means that the response they gave was technically incorrect, but close enough for Jeopardy's purposes.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by hbomb1947 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:39 pm

jeff6286 wrote:
dhkendall wrote:And now, a post actually about game content:

$800 Starting Words:

"It means to start; pronounced differently, it's the last name of a 1970s Israeli Prime Minister"

Henry rang in and replied with "What is Begin?" (pronounced the way of the Israeli PM); IMHO, shouldn't the correct answer be "begin" (ie pronounced like the verb)???
Yep, he totally gave the wrong response and should have been ruled against, but I guess Alex was feeling generous. This is hardly unusual, as quite often they give credit even if the contestant gives something like more information than the clue asks for, (for example, giving more words than required in a fill-in-the-blank clue) or giving a response that doesn't match the verb tense, singular/plural, or some other small detail that means that the response they gave was technically incorrect, but close enough for Jeopardy's purposes.
His response wasn't wrong at all. It's well-established that you can give any pronunciation that fits the spelling -- and obviously, Henry's pronunciation fits the spelling, since the Prime Minister's name is spelled that way.
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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jeff6286 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:45 pm

hbomb1947 wrote:
jeff6286 wrote:
dhkendall wrote:And now, a post actually about game content:

$800 Starting Words:

"It means to start; pronounced differently, it's the last name of a 1970s Israeli Prime Minister"

Henry rang in and replied with "What is Begin?" (pronounced the way of the Israeli PM); IMHO, shouldn't the correct answer be "begin" (ie pronounced like the verb)???
Yep, he totally gave the wrong response and should have been ruled against, but I guess Alex was feeling generous. This is hardly unusual, as quite often they give credit even if the contestant gives something like more information than the clue asks for, (for example, giving more words than required in a fill-in-the-blank clue) or giving a response that doesn't match the verb tense, singular/plural, or some other small detail that means that the response they gave was technically incorrect, but close enough for Jeopardy's purposes.
His response wasn't wrong at all. It's well-established that you can give any pronunciation that fits the spelling -- and obviously, Henry's pronunciation fits the spelling, since the Prime Minister's name is spelled that way.
I tend to disagree, because there are exceptions to that rule, such as clues where something must rhyme, in which case a mispronunciation would cause someone to be ruled incorrect. In this case, the clue clearly states that the word can be pronounced two different ways, and they even told you what the secondary pronunciation refers to. The clue asked for the first, which also happened to be a synonym for "start", which was the theme of the category. I didn't really think he would be ruled incorrect, because as I mentioned above, J! tends to be lenient with this type of thing, but I do firmly believe that he gave the wrong response.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Paucle » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:48 pm

hbomb1947 wrote:His response wasn't wrong at all. It's well-established that you can give any pronunciation that fits the spelling -- and obviously, Henry's pronunciation fits the spelling, since the Prime Minister's name is spelled that way.
Perhaps. I wonder how he pronounces the PMs name then?
econgator wrote:Hey Andy ... any time he posts, can I just edit the post to "blah blah blah words words"?
Careful- I think anybody who actually goes around posting nothing but "blah blah blah" would take umbrage at the association.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:28 pm

jeff6286 wrote: I tend to disagree, because there are exceptions to that rule, such as clues where something must rhyme, in which case a mispronunciation would cause someone to be ruled incorrect.
Someone responded "Grant's aunts" in Rhyme Time a few years ago, pronouncing "aunts" the non-rhyming way, and got credit all the same. http://j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=2970

P.S. That game aired the night before I first taped, and that response came up in green room discussion while I was in the bathroom. One of my fellow contestants-to-be misheard the rhyming pronunciation as "Grant's ass"; when I came out of the bathroom, Maggie said, "Hi Stefan, we were just talking about Grant's ass." I responded, "Who's buried in Grant's ass?"

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by xxaaaxx » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:34 pm

Do you just...remember all these bits of trivia about past games, or do I just suck at searching the archive?

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:37 pm

It helped that, like I said, it came up in my green room the following day. But it was enough of an anomaly that the response probably would have stuck in my mind anyway, and with the normal search feature down I do my searches directly from google, with "site:j-archive.com" among the terms.

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Re: Friday, July 6, 2012 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by NewsToTom » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:25 pm

seaborgium wrote:The worst thing about the Kursk clue was that recently, perhaps even today, I read something, I suspect on Twitter, saying that the Edmund Fitzgerald, the Kursk, and the Lusitania all sank in waters shallower than the vessels' respective lengths. I was even going to read the fact aloud to someone, but I didn't bother because I didn't know what the Kursk was, and moved on because my attention span was too short to bother following through.
It was in xkcd relatively recently. http://xkcd.com/1040/

Add another name to the "Madame Butterfly even though I was pretty darned sure it was wrong" list.

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