Reretaken Down

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, dhkendall, trainman, econgator

User avatar
econgator
Let's Go Mets!
Posts: 7756
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:32 am

Re: Reretaken Down

Post by econgator » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:25 pm

Euphonium wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:24 am
Except the second team isn't on offense if the first team scores a touchdown.
Exactly. So, there is no imbalance.

User avatar
opusthepenguin
The Best Darn Penguin on the Whole JBoard
Posts: 6253
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: Shawnee, KS
Contact:

Re: Reretaken Down

Post by opusthepenguin » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:14 pm

twelvefootboy wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:09 am
2) But still, "(a coin toss decides who gets to go first)". To mitigate this advantage (however small it is), I think the losing team ought to get one more play than the winner. Like a tennis tiebreaker, sort of. You gotta hold them twice. If they get 5 plays to your 4 and lose, the coin toss is equalized. It also would take the sting out of losing by inches on the 49 yard line.
Either that or make the decision non-arbitrary. The team that was most recently ahead gets to go first. That way, if you play to tie rather than to win, you're putting your team at a disadvantage in overtime. That seems fair. In the Chiefs' case that might actually have goaded them into trying for a TD at the end rather than kicking the field goal to tie it. They would have known that kicking the field goal meant giving Tom Brady one free try to advance the ball down the field like your defense doesn't even blip into existence until after the pass is complete. Since they had just seen him do exactly that a couple of minutes prior, they might have chosen to avoid repeating the scenario.

User avatar
Euphonium
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:58 am
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Euphonium » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:32 pm

econgator wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:25 pm
Euphonium wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:24 am
Except the second team isn't on offense if the first team scores a touchdown.
Exactly. So, there is no imbalance.
Yes, there is.

Team that wins the coin toss: only has to do their job (score a touchdown) on one side and they win.

Team that loses the coin toss: has to do their job on both sides (get a stop, then score) to win.
In any dispute between labor and management, the workers are always right.

User avatar
Linear Gnome
One Miner Gal
Posts: 1675
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:55 am
Location: Rolla, MO

Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Linear Gnome » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:48 pm

Euphonium wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:32 pm
econgator wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:25 pm
Euphonium wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:24 am
Except the second team isn't on offense if the first team scores a touchdown.
Exactly. So, there is no imbalance.
Yes, there is.

Team that wins the coin toss: only has to do their job (score a touchdown) on one side and they win.

Team that loses the coin toss: has to do their job on both sides (get a stop, then score) to win.
I'm with Euphonium on this one. It's as if A and B play a game in which the first player to flip heads wins and A gets to go first. You can't say that they have the same probability of winning because B has a 50-50 chance of getting heads *after* he has already survived A flipping tails. If my geometric series aren't failing me, A has a 2/3 probability of winning that game to B's 1/3.

The football situation isn't exactly the same, but I think the idea is similar: balance is not restored because the first team wins by scoring on their nth possession and their defense surviving (n-1) possessions, while the second team wins by scoring on their nth possession and their defense surviving n possessions which is harder.

User avatar
twelvefootboy
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:18 pm
Location: Tornado Alley / Southwest Missouri

Re: Reretaken Down

Post by twelvefootboy » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:32 pm

opusthepenguin wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:14 pm
twelvefootboy wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:09 am
2) But still, "(a coin toss decides who gets to go first)". To mitigate this advantage (however small it is), I think the losing team ought to get one more play than the winner. Like a tennis tiebreaker, sort of. You gotta hold them twice. If they get 5 plays to your 4 and lose, the coin toss is equalized. It also would take the sting out of losing by inches on the 49 yard line.
Either that or make the decision non-arbitrary. The team that was most recently ahead gets to go first. That way, if you play to tie rather than to win, you're putting your team at a disadvantage in overtime. That seems fair. In the Chiefs' case that might actually have goaded them into trying for a TD at the end rather than kicking the field goal to tie it. They would have known that kicking the field goal meant giving Tom Brady one free try to advance the ball down the field like your defense doesn't even blip into existence until after the pass is complete. Since they had just seen him do exactly that a couple of minutes prior, they might have chosen to avoid repeating the scenario.
You well know the Chiefs in particular will always maximize their chance to blow it. :roll:

This is indeed a better way than a coin flip to award the advantage, but I'd rather see no advantage at all - the two teams did finish in a tie in 60 minutes and as in golf, they don't ask how, they ask "how many?"

I do like the idea that the loser has one extra down, equivalent to "win by two" in tennis or pickup basketball. Or at least make the winning team gain 1 yard so it isn't a referee spot that decides the game. Ah, dang it, just don't keep score and give everybody a participation medal :lol:
Disclaimer - repeated exposure to author's musings may cause befuddlement.

User avatar
LucarioSnooperVixey
Sharp As A Tack
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:41 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Reretaken Down

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:17 am

UK Chase record. Solo player wins &70,000.

Known in the real world as Douglas Squasoni.

User avatar
MarkBarrett
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 8685
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:37 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: Reretaken Down

Post by MarkBarrett » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:30 pm

Not J! worthy enough for the current events thread: NFL referee Red Cashion died at age 87 and he is fondly remembered for yelling, "First down!" in games.

The NFL must have clips on tight lock down as I could not find one. This is the best I could round up:


User avatar
OrangeSAM
(Unranked)
Posts: 1988
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:00 pm

Re: Reretaken Down

Post by OrangeSAM » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:41 pm

Volante wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:04 am
econgator wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:52 am
alietr wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:24 am
Euphonium wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:54 pm
(side note: got to take a 757 out of Santa Ana once; between the overpowered engines and the noise abatement procedures, it's the coolest thing ever)
How so?
If he's referring to John Wayne, I'd guess it would be due to the shortness of the runways there. A 757 would have to take off much quicker than it normally would (usually needs about 1.25 miles and the runway is barely 1 mile long), so the plane would have to be underweight and hoofing it.
Not only that, but a couple thousand feet up, they have to throttle back because people don't want to -hear- the airport. So pilots have to go full out, coast, then go full out again. (It's more nuanced than that, but I'm not too motivated to find detailed steps)

Moving on...
Moved here 'cause it's not a current event.

Yes, taking off from SNA heading south can be a bit of a roller coaster ride. (Disclaimer: I haven't taken off to the north which happens under Santa Ana wind conditions. The change in traffic patterns is a weather forecast of sorts since it happens hours ahead of the actual wind shift.)

This goes back three decades or so when the airport expanded. It had been a relative backwater without even jetways or a terminal of much substance. The folks living south of the airport, basically Newport Beach, got upset about potential noise problems. This group being well-connected politically (and monied) eventually got the FAA to put in "noise abatement" procedures and limitations on airport operational hours.

The details vary depending on the aircraft model and engines but you takeoff at full throttle and at a steeper angle than most are used to, but when you get close to the homes of those NBers with sensitive ears, the throttle is pulled back until you're over the ocean, when more normal procedures are applied.

The FAA later stated they'd never agree to such terms again.
OCSam

Post Reply