Tuesday, October 27, 2015 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[bpmod]

(Agree in this case, no shot to win, but there are many times when players in 3rd have a much better chance to win betting small but instead go big).

Yes. But that's not what we're talking about here. Yes, 3rd could have (and maybe should have) done the precise calculations to arrive where she'd have beaten 2nd on a clue they both stumped. But (as I said), I'd never fault anybody for going all in seeing as she needed both to go big and to get it right (in addition to the leader (and 2nd) missing) for any hope of winning.

Contestants should be thinking of second vs. third if those are the only choices they have.

Brian

[brick]

My FJ experience was "oh hell, you have GOT to be kidding me!" Deep breath. "Ok. Use the time. Start with Hall. Hall, oh man! Too easy!" My partner started chuckling about the same time I did.

[nlw44]

I said fen for bog - judges?

I'm fine with the "west village" correction, even though i said greenwich village, but i thought the "mutt" correction was odd. Sure, it technically has 2 consonants and a vowel, but...

The reason AT gave for the reversal was that supposedly he hadn't specified that there were ONLY going to be 2 consonants and 1 vowel...except that he DID specify just that when he introduced the category. He said something to the effect of "...and that's it" after giving the category name. That seems pretty clear to me. But she seems to have had trouble remembering the category at other times as well (something not starting with a P in the "'P's on Earth" category, for one,) so it doesn't exactly surprise me that she didn't remember him saying that. All in all, they were ridiculously generous with her, which didn't help her at all in the end.

[econgator]

I said fen for bog - judges?

I'm fine with the "west village" correction, even though i said greenwich village, but i thought the "mutt" correction was odd. Sure, it technically has 2 consonants and a vowel, but...

The reason AT gave for the reversal was that supposedly he hadn't specified that there were ONLY going to be 2 consonants and 1 vowel...except that he DID specify just that when he introduced the category. He said something to the effect of "...and that's it" after giving the category name. That seems pretty clear to me. But she seems to have had trouble remembering the category at other times as well (something not starting with a P in the "'P's on Earth" category, for one,) so it doesn't exactly surprise me that she didn't remember him saying that. All in all, they were ridiculously generous with her, which didn't help her at all in the end.

He did specify that. What he didn't specify was that there should be only 3 letters. "Mutt" has 2 consonants (m & t) and one vowel.

[hbomb1947]

Sean has played very well, but you know he's kicking himself over not wagering more on that last Daily Double to lock Dave out. Luckily, it worked out for him!

No, I doubt he's kicking himself. Timid DD wagers have been Sean's pattern. And today, it was his DD in the SJ round where he really underwagered severely. He had $8,600 and his closest opponent had $2,200, and he wagers $1,400???!!! You have to go all-in in that situation unless you really hate the category, and in that case, bet enough to leave you still ahead if you miss. He could have entered DJ with $17,200 and totally demoralized his opponents and made it extremely difficult for them to come back.

And there seemed no purpose to the $1,000 wager on the Lake Shore Drive DD, which didn't guarantee a lockout.

The good news is that Sean is getting his DD's correct now. The bad news is that his minimalistic wagering is giving chances to his opponents that he's lucky they're blowing. If Dave hadn't missed a gettable DD (the instrumental theme from the Dr. Zhivago movie is known as "Lara's theme") and hadn't had a brain-freeze on Jeremy Piven's last name, Sean quite likely would have lost the game (acknowledging that we don't know that all the other remaining clues would have played out the same in this alternate history). I'm rooting for Sean because he's a fellow quadragenarian, but his DD wagers are driving me crazy.

Add me to the list of people who thought the FJ was Kids' Week level (maybe Teen Tournament level). Who is the first person that anyone thinks of when you say "signer of the Declaration of Independence"? And guess what, alphabetically his surname fits neatly between the two names given in the clue.

[nlw44]

I said fen for bog - judges?

I'm fine with the "west village" correction, even though i said greenwich village, but i thought the "mutt" correction was odd. Sure, it technically has 2 consonants and a vowel, but...

The reason AT gave for the reversal was that supposedly he hadn't specified that there were ONLY going to be 2 consonants and 1 vowel...except that he DID specify just that when he introduced the category. He said something to the effect of "...and that's it" after giving the category name. That seems pretty clear to me. But she seems to have had trouble remembering the category at other times as well (something not starting with a P in the "'P's on Earth" category, for one,) so it doesn't exactly surprise me that she didn't remember him saying that. All in all, they were ridiculously generous with her, which didn't help her at all in the end.

He did specify that. What he didn't specify was that there should be only 3 letters. "Mutt" has 2 consonants (m & t) and one vowel.

Mutt has three consonants, two of which are the same letter. Or conversely, as you say, it has 2 consonants, one of which is used twice. It's a matter of interpretation, I guess, so perhaps I'll be a bit more generous with her than I was. But there is no denying that she was given two gifts in the game and couldn't turn it to any particular advantage.

[Winchell Factor]

I said fen for bog - judges?

I'm fine with the "west village" correction, even though i said greenwich village, but i thought the "mutt" correction was odd. Sure, it technically has 2 consonants and a vowel, but...

The reason AT gave for the reversal was that supposedly he hadn't specified that there were ONLY going to be 2 consonants and 1 vowel...except that he DID specify just that when he introduced the category. He said something to the effect of "...and that's it" after giving the category name. That seems pretty clear to me. But she seems to have had trouble remembering the category at other times as well (something not starting with a P in the "'P's on Earth" category, for one,) so it doesn't exactly surprise me that she didn't remember him saying that. All in all, they were ridiculously generous with her, which didn't help her at all in the end.

He did specify that. What he didn't specify was that there should be only 3 letters. "Mutt" has 2 consonants (m & t) and one vowel.

And although I wasn't there, I have no doubt that TPTB stopped tape, listened again to exactly what AT had said to introduce the category, and then concluded that Jayne's answer fit the terms she had heard given, so they had to accept it.

[opusthepenguin]

The reason AT gave for the reversal was that supposedly he hadn't specified that there were ONLY going to be 2 consonants and 1 vowel...except that he DID specify just that when he introduced the category. He said something to the effect of "...and that's it" after giving the category name. That seems pretty clear to me.

I don't find it clear at all. For starters, "that's it" seems to mean that all the categories have now been listed. I don't hear it as offering instruction about the 2 CONSONANTS, 1 VOWEL category at all. If it was offered as an instruction, it's still ambiguous. That's it. No other consonants or vowels will appear in the response. Ooooo.... kay. I remember wondering at the time whether that meant only one use of each letter or whether, e.g., "banana" was a possibility.

So that's two ambiguities. Was "that's it" an instruction? If so, what did it mean? A reasonable person could make a different interpretation on either of those. I think the judges applied the rules correctly in partially reversing the decision. (I'd prefer a full reversal, but them's not the rules.)

[brick]

The reason AT gave for the reversal was that supposedly he hadn't specified that there were ONLY going to be 2 consonants and 1 vowel...except that he DID specify just that when he introduced the category. He said something to the effect of "...and that's it" after giving the category name. That seems pretty clear to me.

I don't find it clear at all. For starters, "that's it" seems to mean that all the categories have now been listed. I don't hear it as offering instruction about the 2 CONSONANTS, 1 VOWEL category at all. If it was offered as an instruction, it's still ambiguous. That's it. No other consonants or vowels will appear in the response. Ooooo.... kay. I remember wondering at the time whether that meant only one use of each letter or whether, e.g., "banana" was a possibility.

So that's two ambiguities. Was "that's it" an instruction? If so, what did it mean? A reasonable person could make a different interpretation on either of those. I think the judges applied the rules correctly in partially reversing the decision. (I'd prefer a full reversal, but them's not the rules.)

Ah. The reasonable penguin defense.

[opusthepenguin]

Ah. The reasonable penguin defense.

Just because it's a complete hypothetical doesn't mean it isn't valid.

[OSXpert]

To me, it seemed very clear that they wanted three letter responses, but I also agree that nothing was explicitly said that make her answer incorrect. So, I just hope they gave her the money back very begrudgingly.

[Volante]

I said fen for bog - judges?

I'm fine with the "west village" correction, even though i said greenwich village, but i thought the "mutt" correction was odd. Sure, it technically has 2 consonants and a vowel, but...

As soon as she was ruled wrong I figured they'd reverse that after the break. TPTB always err on the side of the contestant when there's ambiguity.

Think that's going to be my favorite FJ of the season. Upon first glance, completely impenetrable. But process it for a few seconds, unbelievably obvious.

[MarkBarrett]

The J! and DJ! rounds had 58 clues total. The players had 59R total thanks to the double dipping on the reversal clues. No one had any Lach Trash tonight. There wasn't any available. All the players left, well Dave only, up for grabs was Dr. Zhivago.

Black Maria = Hearts and not Spades? In box 2? Okay, writers you got me. My name is not Hoyle.

"P"s ON EARTH $200: A groundhog named Phil is the center of attention on February 2 here

Mark: What is Pennsylvania?
I counted it although I could have handled the inevitable BMS from Alex.

Sean's $1400 out of $8600 DD wager in the J! round with the "P" hint in place was very weak. Yesterday was yesterday. He needed to bet with better confidence today. Dave should have been a goner after his DD miss, but instead still had a chance in the FJ! round.

I was done with Dave after clue 9. He got Cy Young and then switched categories. Go Sean.

The FJ! category had me consider guys for the Dec. of Ind. and the Constitution. Hancock was part of my brainstorm during the break. When I saw the clue I had to do Ham, no. Han, yes. Done. The shots of Sean during think time and the reveal had me less than 100% certain he had it right.

Okay, Bilow on the bubble tomorrow. It's exciting to know the TOC field is still unsettled for viewers.

***********
I need a new method to pick my 6 J! 6 categories. I was 3/6 on the ones I played for real and then 6/6 when I played the ones that don't count. Even with multiple choice I can mess up.

[BigDaddyMatty]

Coryat: $26,600
37 R/2 W
DD: 2/3
FJ: Instaget
LT: Nada

Whenever you think "easiest FJ! ever," think back to this one. This might've been a triple get during Kids' Week. (And yet...)

The J! and DJ! rounds had 58 clues total. The players had 59R total thanks to the double dipping on the reversal clues. No one had any Lach Trash tonight. There wasn't any available. All the players left, well Dave only, up for grabs was Dr. Zhivago.

I noticed that as well. Apropos given the Burning Man "leave no trace" clue. Anyone have an idea when the last trashless game was?

Black Maria = Hearts and not Spades? In box 2? Okay, writers you got me. My name is not Hoyle.

Seriously. That was the negbait of all negbait. In retrospect, it makes perfect sense given that in hearts each heart is worth one point and the queen of spades is worth 13, but come on.

[davey]

Let me simplify that Final Jeopardy question for you: name one person who signed the Declaration of Independence.

I would have gotten it right if that's how they worded it. Instead, I'll admit that this was one of those embarrassingly easy FJs where it was a little too tempting to over-think it, compounded by getting side-tracked with a wrong answer that, even knowing it was wrong, still managed to cause all brain function to cease.

Yes, I had Hamilton on the brain and couldn't root him out. Yes, I hope I don't miss an easier FJ this season....

[MarkBarrett]

Black Maria = Hearts and not Spades? In box 2? Okay, writers you got me. My name is not Hoyle.

Seriously. That was the negbait of all negbait. In retrospect, it makes perfect sense given that in hearts each heart is worth one point and the queen of spades is worth 13, but come on.

Oh, you call her the queen of spades? Hmmm, she's always had a different name when my dad taught me how to play years ago. Yes, it does make sense for Hearts to have been Black Maria. In the pace of a J! game I would fault no one for saying Spades first.

[brick]

Black Maria = Hearts and not Spades? In box 2? Okay, writers you got me. My name is not Hoyle.

Seriously. That was the negbait of all negbait. In retrospect, it makes perfect sense given that in hearts each heart is worth one point and the queen of spades is worth 13, but come on.

Oh, you call her the queen of spades? Hmmm, she's always had a different name when my dad taught me how to play years ago. Yes, it does make sense for Hearts to have been Black Maria. In the pace of a J! game I would fault no one for saying Spades first.

In the context of that game she was called The Black B-word when I learned the game.

[patkav]

This rarely happens, but I actually pre-called FJ during the commercial break/wagering period. Yay, me!

[dhkendall]

Let me simplify that Final Jeopardy question for you: name one person who signed the Declaration of Independence.

Pretty much how it was for me. And since I could only name the one ... (Good thing I read the clue, noticed "holy smoke, it fits!" (followed by "really, writers? Final Jeopardy! and you're making it this easy?")

Was I the only one hoping someone would write the answer really large?

Nope.

[Lefty]

Whenever you think "easiest FJ! ever," think back to this one. This might've been a triple get during Kids' Week. (And yet...)

It's an example of a clue that would be easier on Kids' Week, just by virtue of its being Kids' Week.