Reretaken Down

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seaborgium
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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by seaborgium » Sun May 06, 2018 2:47 pm

TenPoundHammer wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:29 pm
There's a country music singer named Jon Pardi. Twice I've suggested to his team that he should get Johnny Gilbert to open all of his concerts with "This! Is! Jon Pardi!" but so far I haven't heard back.
There was a contestant named Joe Parodi who lost to the same guy who beat my dad; as we were leaving after the Wednesday game's taping my dad pointed out to him that his name was almost an anagram of Jeopardy.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by MarkBarrett » Wed May 09, 2018 3:57 pm

MarkBarrett wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:36 pm
Finished another box of Wheaties:
SpoilerShow
Image
I see CP4XF-KTLHL-33C7
SpoilerShow
MarkBarrett wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:36 pm
MarkBarrett wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:49 pm
This is a first come, first serve type of thing as it won't work for the 2nd person. I finished a box of Wheaties and there is an offer of 3 free Jordan Spieth Titleist golf balls with purchase of 4 specially marked boxes. Jumping through the registration hoops and the marketing annoyances that go with it are not of interest to me. Not to mention the product itself.

In case anyone does care this is my code up for grabs:

Image

Registration is at: wheaties.com/golfballs

The offer goes through the end of May, so I'm sure I'll go through a few more boxes of the cereal before then to have more codes to share.

Out of curiosity I checked eBay and sure enough there are sellers looking for buyers of one single ball or the set of three.
Finished another box: Image
Okay, last box code for this promotion with a few weeks remaining:
SpoilerShow
Image
I read GNHYF-FG7XL-EF3F

There have been multiple sales of the item: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... Complete=1

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Woof » Wed May 09, 2018 11:49 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 7:24 pm
Woof wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:38 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:09 am
earendel wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 4:11 pm
President Trump pulls US out of the nuclear deal with Iran, citing continuing efforts on Iran's part to develop such weapons and support for terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah and the continuing conflicts in Iraq, Syria and Yemen.
President Trump also specifically cited Israel's recently intelligence coup that indicated Iran was lying all along and repeatedly violating the deal. He withdraws despite a number of European diplomats trying to convince him to stay, including (interestingly enough) Boris Johnson.
To be clear, Israel's "coup" disclosed that Iran had a weapons program *prior* to the start of the agreement. None of their intelligence, or anyone else's, has suggested that Iran has pursued nuclear weapons since the inception of the agreement.
Wrong. What's truly astonishing about your claim is that EVEN people strongly in favor of the Iran deal openly admit that yes, Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. I can quote a number of secondary sources, but here is the primary one, which you evidently didn't watch;



Meanwhile, I would love to know from what source you get that statement, or if it's editorializing?
I did watch that video. Netanyahu carefully and meticulously details the past efforts by Iran to establish a nuclear weapons program, but all of his data comes from prior to 2015. He makes one unsupported statement that it continues today but provides no documentation for that assertion (unless he stated it in Hebrew at the end)

As for the sources of my statements, it's been widely reported in the media that both the CIA and Joint Chiefs of Staff have consistently maintained that Iran remains in compliance with the JCPOA, but that information is classified. The Brookings Institution has weighed in on the subject and also on the import of the Israeli coup. The UN and the IAEA, the group in charge of monitoring compliance, both maintain that Iran has complied with the JCPOA too.

None of this says that Iran hasn't pursued a ballistic missile program or supported Hezbollah or the Huthis in Yemen. Moreover, because JCPOA inspections can only verify a negative, there is always a possibility that Iran has managed to successfully hide a nuclear program from the IAEA inspection teams despite their best efforts. There is no evidence for this latter, however, that I have seen.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by 9021amyers » Thu May 10, 2018 12:05 am

Woof wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 11:49 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 7:24 pm
Woof wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:38 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:09 am
earendel wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 4:11 pm
President Trump pulls US out of the nuclear deal with Iran, citing continuing efforts on Iran's part to develop such weapons and support for terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah and the continuing conflicts in Iraq, Syria and Yemen.
President Trump also specifically cited Israel's recently intelligence coup that indicated Iran was lying all along and repeatedly violating the deal. He withdraws despite a number of European diplomats trying to convince him to stay, including (interestingly enough) Boris Johnson.
To be clear, Israel's "coup" disclosed that Iran had a weapons program *prior* to the start of the agreement. None of their intelligence, or anyone else's, has suggested that Iran has pursued nuclear weapons since the inception of the agreement.
Wrong. What's truly astonishing about your claim is that EVEN people strongly in favor of the Iran deal openly admit that yes, Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. I can quote a number of secondary sources, but here is the primary one, which you evidently didn't watch;



Meanwhile, I would love to know from what source you get that statement, or if it's editorializing?
I did watch that video. Netanyahu carefully and meticulously details the past efforts by Iran to establish a nuclear weapons program, but all of his data comes from prior to 2015. He makes one unsupported statement that it continues today but provides no documentation for that assertion (unless he stated it in Hebrew at the end)

As for the sources of my statements, it's been widely reported in the media that both the CIA and Joint Chiefs of Staff have consistently maintained that Iran remains in compliance with the JCPOA, but that information is classified. The Brookings Institution has weighed in on the subject and also on the import of the Israeli coup. The UN and the IAEA, the group in charge of monitoring compliance, both maintain that Iran has complied with the JCPOA too.

None of this says that Iran hasn't pursued a ballistic missile program or supported Hezbollah or the Huthis in Yemen. Moreover, because JCPOA inspections can only verify a negative, there is always a possibility that Iran has managed to successfully hide a nuclear program from the IAEA inspection teams despite their best efforts. There is no evidence for this latter, however, that I have seen.
Ultimately, whatever Iran’s ambitions are, one can be assured that matters of substance had nothing to do with 45 pulling out of the deal; he would have done so even if Iran was unambiguously going above and beyond the conditions of the agreement. This has always been about 45 doing to his predecessor’s accomplishments what the hookers he hired did to the bed in the Moscow Ritz-Carlton, and to show all the “smart people” in his orbit who have been urging him for the last year and a half to stick to the deal what he thinks of their advice. There is nothing to Trump but spite and ego.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by IronNeck » Thu May 10, 2018 12:10 am

Woof wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 11:49 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 7:24 pm
Woof wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:38 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:09 am
earendel wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 4:11 pm
President Trump pulls US out of the nuclear deal with Iran, citing continuing efforts on Iran's part to develop such weapons and support for terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah and the continuing conflicts in Iraq, Syria and Yemen.
President Trump also specifically cited Israel's recently intelligence coup that indicated Iran was lying all along and repeatedly violating the deal. He withdraws despite a number of European diplomats trying to convince him to stay, including (interestingly enough) Boris Johnson.
To be clear, Israel's "coup" disclosed that Iran had a weapons program *prior* to the start of the agreement. None of their intelligence, or anyone else's, has suggested that Iran has pursued nuclear weapons since the inception of the agreement.
Wrong. What's truly astonishing about your claim is that EVEN people strongly in favor of the Iran deal openly admit that yes, Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. I can quote a number of secondary sources, but here is the primary one, which you evidently didn't watch;



Meanwhile, I would love to know from what source you get that statement, or if it's editorializing?
I did watch that video. Netanyahu carefully and meticulously details the past efforts by Iran to establish a nuclear weapons program, but all of his data comes from prior to 2015.
So you admit your original statement was false, then? You notably omitted "nuclear" from Iran's "weapons program" prior to 2015.

And the whole argument before Israel's reveal was "Iran is NOT trying to gain the nuclear bomb! This is just for the purposes of nuclear energy!'. Now, when the information is exhaustively provided showing otherwise, the argument seamlessly transitions into "we knew all along they were trying to make a nuclear bomb!"
He makes one unsupported statement that it continues today but provides no documentation for that assertion (unless he stated it in Hebrew at the end)
Because the present Iran inspections are an absolute joke.

-The IAEA only has access to a few of the Iranian nuclear sites. They have no access to others. In fact, they don't even know where certain ones are located.
-The IAEA has to provide Iran advance warning of over a week that they will visit a site.
-If Iran denies them permission to visit, the decision will be tied up in appeals for months and there is no real punishment for Iran either way.
-Perhaps most gallingly, Iran is allowed to provide their own samples.

As it was put so eloquently in this article,

"The first thing the Iran Deal did was lock away gobs of information, including about its own side deals. The IAEA’s inspections and Joint Commission's proceedings are secret. The IAEA puts out information, like the number of inspections, but without specific locations, they have no context or meaning.

Announcing that there were 25 snap inspections is meaningless without knowing where they happened.

It’s the Iranians who usually make specific claims, like refusing to allow IAEA inspectors to visit military bases, while the IAEA offers general statements about being able to visit all the sites that it wants to.

The two claims aren’t contradictory if you assume that the IAEA doesn’t make the Iranians do anything that they don’t want to do. Does the IAEA visit sites that Iran doesn’t want it to? Good question.

The IAEA is vague. Iran is specific.

“The Americans will take their dream of visiting our military and sensitive sites to their graves ... It will never happen,” Ali Akbar Velayati, a top ally of Iran's ruler, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said.

And if Iran has its way and its nuclear program continues, there will be plenty of American graves."

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/270116 ... greenfield

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Woof » Thu May 10, 2018 11:40 am

IronNeck wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:09 am

So you admit your original statement was false, then? You notably omitted "nuclear" from Iran's "weapons program" prior to 2015.
Good grief! I hadn't noticed that I'd inadvertently left out the word nuclear from that statement. Did you seriously think that I, or any sane person, would argue that Iran isn't making conventional arms?
Because the present Iran inspections are an absolute joke.

-The IAEA only has access to a few of the Iranian nuclear sites. They have no access to others. In fact, they don't even know where certain ones are located.
-The IAEA has to provide Iran advance warning of over a week that they will visit a site.
-If Iran denies them permission to visit, the decision will be tied up in appeals for months and there is no real punishment for Iran either way.
-Perhaps most gallingly, Iran is allowed to provide their own samples.
Your opinions, while they comport with Bibi's and several members of the political right in this country, aren't supported by the views of the majority in the intelligence community, either here or in many of our allies' countries. As I said before, proving a negative is not possible. The IAEA is conducting the most thorough inspections of Iran's nuclear facilities ever. Perhaps it's not sufficient, but the only alternative that most of us see is war with Iran.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by IronNeck » Thu May 10, 2018 9:18 pm

Woof wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:40 am
Your opinions, while they comport with Bibi's and several members of the political right in this country, aren't supported by the views of the majority in the intelligence community, either here or in many of our allies' countries.
Very telling, isn't it, that I provide specific facts and figures about what the IAEA is and isn't allowed to do...whereas you can only reply with vague opinions about how vague, unnamed groups disagree?
Woof wrote:Perhaps it's not sufficient, but the only alternative that most of us see is war with Iran.
Amusingly, this is a view you share with Neo-Nazis (or as I like to call them, Swastika Panties), who are ALSO strongly against Trump withdrawing from the Iran deal, and claim that it's "Jews running US foreign policy and making the US fight a war for them!".

The claim is absurd and laughable. The US simply has to reapply the sanctions they had in place before then, wait for the Iranian economy (which is already in a bad state) to crumble, support Israeli airstrikes on Iranian encroachment in Syria and on their nuclear factories, and support the major populist uprisings against the Ayatollahs, the most recent of which occurred only a few months ago. (And received virtually no Western support...I wonder why?) No US military action of any kind is unnecessary.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Volante » Thu May 10, 2018 9:58 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:18 pm
Woof wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:40 am
Your opinions, while they comport with Bibi's and several members of the political right in this country, aren't supported by the views of the majority in the intelligence community, either here or in many of our allies' countries.
Very telling, isn't it, that I provide specific facts and figures about what the IAEA is and isn't allowed to do...whereas you can only reply with vague opinions about how vague, unnamed groups disagree?
Mike Pompeo even disagrees with your opinions. Iran has been keeping up their end of the bargain.

Oh, but no, I'm sure that we'll liberate Iran just as well as we have Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan...

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by IronNeck » Thu May 10, 2018 10:32 pm

Volante wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:58 pm
Mike Pompeo even disagrees with your opinions.
Source? Not that this would be a fact or figure, unlike what I cited.
Iran has been keeping up their end of the bargain.
HAHAHA. Do you blindly believe North Korean propaganda, too? And if you do, how do you feel about the Iranian parliament chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA!" and burning the US flag right after the deal was canceled?



Do you believe them there, too? Or only when it suits your narrative?
Oh, but no, I'm sure that we'll liberate Iran just as well as we have Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan...
Yet another (verbatim) Swastika Panties argument, albeit minus the "it's the fault of the Jooos!" afterwards. Yet again, the claim that reimposing the same sanctions on Iran the US has had for decades before the "deal" will also require military intervention is either dishonest or ignorant.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Volante » Thu May 10, 2018 10:45 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:32 pm
Volante wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:58 pm
Mike Pompeo even disagrees with your opinions.
Source? Not that this would be a fact or figure, unlike what I cited.
Iran has been keeping up their end of the bargain.
HAHAHA. Do you blindly believe North Korean propaganda, too? And if you do, how do you feel about the Iranian parliament chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA!" and burning the US flag right after the deal was canceled?
SpoilerShow
Do you believe them there, too? Or only when it suits your narrative?
So you do disagree with Mike Pompeo?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?443693-1/ ... on-hearing
1:42:00

DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO DISPUTE THE iI.A.E.A. ASSESSMENT THAT IRAN IS IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH THE JCPOA?

WITH THE INFORMATION I'VE BEEN PROVIDED, I'VE SEEN NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE TODAY.
Pompeo is a North Korean agent!!!!!!!111!111

You better apply to the CIA posthaste. Clearly you know more about international relations than Haspel

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by IronNeck » Thu May 10, 2018 11:08 pm

No reaction to the video of the Iranian parliament gleefully chanting "Death To America"? No response to reimposing sanctions? Just (as it turns out, misconstruing) a quote by Mike Pompeo, who I seem to believe Democrats absolutely despising and not wanting to confirm in the first place?

How very telling!
Volante wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:45 pm
So you do disagree with Mike Pompeo?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?443693-1/ ... on-hearing
1:42:00
I'm glad you provided his direct quote...because it's different than what you claimed above. Pompeo wouldn't disagree with what I wrote...because I completely agree with HIS quote.

Had you bothered reading my first post above, I noted that there is literally no way for the IAEA to gain any credible samples...especially since Iran can provide the samples themselves, or tell them "you can't come here" any time it wants to. So yes, in the absence of any intelligence, there is indeed no way to know one way or the other.

THAT is why Israel's presentation was so valuable, because their intelligence in the region is considerable.

But yet, you're disagreeing with Netanyahu and Mossad. Do you think you know more than them? Or do you think they're evil Jewish liars?

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Volante » Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:08 pm
But yet, you're disagreeing with Netanyahu and Mossad. Do you think you know more than them? Or do you think they're evil Jewish liars?
Oh, nice loaded question. While you're at it, why not ask when I stopped beating my wife?

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by IronNeck » Fri May 11, 2018 1:17 am

Volante wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:08 pm
But yet, you're disagreeing with Netanyahu and Mossad. Do you think you know more than them? Or do you think they're evil Jewish liars?
Oh, nice loaded question. While you're at it, why not ask when I stopped beating my wife?
Nice try at evasion, but it's not a loaded question. You either think Netanyahu and Mossad are lying or they're not. Which is it?

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by boson » Fri May 11, 2018 8:38 am

IronNeck wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 1:17 am
Volante wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:08 pm
But yet, you're disagreeing with Netanyahu and Mossad. Do you think you know more than them? Or do you think they're evil Jewish liars?
Oh, nice loaded question. While you're at it, why not ask when I stopped beating my wife?
Nice try at evasion, but it's not a loaded question. You either think Netanyahu and Mossad are lying or they're not. Which is it?
Of course they are lying. Politicians and spies.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by davey » Fri May 11, 2018 9:58 am

For the record, the quote from Mike Pompeo given above, from his confirmation hearing, is accurate. It's around 1:43:00 of the video, not 1:42:00
Whether it reflects a conviction that will influence his policies as Secretary of State, since we've left the agreement anyway, is another question.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by IronNeck » Fri May 11, 2018 5:25 pm

boson wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:38 am
IronNeck wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 1:17 am
Volante wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:08 pm
But yet, you're disagreeing with Netanyahu and Mossad. Do you think you know more than them? Or do you think they're evil Jewish liars?
Oh, nice loaded question. While you're at it, why not ask when I stopped beating my wife?
Nice try at evasion, but it's not a loaded question. You either think Netanyahu and Mossad are lying or they're not. Which is it?
Of course they are lying. Politicians and spies.
Ah, so they're Jewish liars, and the objective intelligence they gathered is all bogus, too? Funny that not even the politicians who hate Israel and support Iran have made this claim, but it's good that you're so honest.

In that case, does that mean Iran is nowhere close to developing nuclear bombs? And if so, does that mean you believe Iran? But if that's the case...Iran has openly bragged about being able to hit Haifa with nuclear bombs, wiping out Israel, and their long-term goal of "Death to America".

Are they lying or honest about that, then?

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Volante » Fri May 11, 2018 6:13 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 5:25 pm
Ah, so they're Jewish liars, and the objective intelligence they gathered is all bogus, too? Funny that not even the politicians who hate Israel and support Iran have made this claim, but it's good that you're so honest.

In that case, does that mean Iran is nowhere close to developing nuclear bombs? And if so, does that mean you believe Iran? But if that's the case...Iran has openly bragged about being able to hit Haifa with nuclear bombs, wiping out Israel, and their long-term goal of "Death to America".

Are they lying or honest about that, then?
No one's called the information bogus. They HAVE called it out of date.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... al/559250/
Many of the slides Netanyahu showed pertained to the period from 1999 to 2003, during which the U.S. also cited evidence of an Iranian nuclear-weapons program, and after which a U.S. National Intelligence Estimate said the program had been shut down.
So Iran has not violated the framework.

Lastly, it's rich to point at extremist Iran politicians who threaten the US and Israel and use them as a proxy for all Iranians while we have our own who, while slightly more diplomatic in phrasing, are basically chanting "Death to Iran."

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by IronNeck » Fri May 11, 2018 10:37 pm

Volante wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:13 pm
Lastly, it's rich to point at extremist Iran politicians who threaten the US and Israel and use them as a proxy for all Iranians while we have our own who, while slightly more diplomatic in phrasing, are basically chanting "Death to Iran."
Ah, so now we get to the part of the discussion where you begin outright lying.

The Iranians chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA" and burning the American flag were not a few isolated "extremists". This happened on the floor of the Iranian Parliament. It is also the mainstream, widely accepted view of their government, from the Ayatollah Khomeini on down. Pretending otherwise is quite the falsehood, and as deceitful as anything you've written about the Iran Deal itself.

Then again, so is pretending that any US politicians has "basically" chanted "Death to Iran". Just another bald-faced lie.

However, since you think the US is morally equivalent to Iran, and are unconcerned about Iran's threats, why bother living in such a wicked, awful country?

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by Volante » Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 pm

IronNeck wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:37 pm
Then again, so is pretending that any US politicians has "basically" chanted "Death to Iran". Just another bald-faced lie.

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Re: Reretaken Down

Post by IronNeck » Sat May 12, 2018 1:09 am

Volante wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 pm
IronNeck wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:37 pm
Then again, so is pretending that any US politicians has "basically" chanted "Death to Iran". Just another bald-faced lie.
Video is from 2007. You couldn't even find anything from the last decade!

Even worse, the video shows John McCain, a warmongering lunatic and liar who, last I checked, despised and attacked President Trump as much as any Democrat has. Moreover, he has been openly supporting the Democrats on the Iran Deal.

So...what were you trying to prove here, exactly? That the one lunatic suggesting the US bomb Iran (still very different than your dishonest claim of "Death to Iran") is ON YOUR SIDE of this issue?

Okay, good job.

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