Wednesday, September 19, 2018 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Archivists]

J! Round

[Archivists]

DJ! Round

[theFJguy]

FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
18th CENTURY AMERICANS

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
In a famous 1775 speech, he said, “Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston!”

Kyle Jones: 10000+9601=19601 (6x = $127,203)
Jonathan Lau: 7000-3500=3500
Jordan Moore: 9800+6999=16799

Correct response:

Spoiler

Patrick Henry (Jonathan – Revere)

Daily Doubles
Kyle: 800+1000
Kyle: 13800-3000
Jordan: 5400+2000

Coryats
Kyle: 12800
Jonathan: 7000
Jordan: 9000

Combined: 28,800

Scores at the end of the Jeopardy! Round
Kyle: 2600
Jonathan: 2600
Jordan: 4600

[MarkBarrett]

More razor work:

Spoiler

The gang over at Reddit will be happy their site got a mention in a clue.

Once again Kyle had the lead for the FJ! round (and he needed it) although the path was not always smooth.

No detours for me on the FJ! clue although Jonathan showed one way someone might go wrong while other incorrect names are possible as well.

[opusthepenguin]

I predicted we'd be down to a mustache by Thursday. Alex jumped the gun. Clean shaven tomorrow, then? That's not nearly as fun as waiting till Friday. But what can he do for Thursday? HitlerCharlie Chaplin mustache? If so, I hope he comes out in a bowler hat and holding a cane.

Ouch. Jordan. I was rooting for her to make a gutsy wager when it counted. That was a rough way to lose. Kyle more than met Jordan halfway by dropping $5000 between a missed DD and a missed $2k clue. Yet when Jordan uncovered the second DD, she chose to stay in second place. That left her $200 behind Kyle going into FJ and $17,601 (plus the chance to play again) behind him when the game was over. Of all the common mistakes we see, I think DD betting to get CLOSE to first place is the most perplexing.

Ran the Leonard Bernstein category and was pleased we got to finish it after that stand-and-stare on La Scala.

I settled on the correct response for FJ, but not without worry. I wondered if I was missing some obvious Bostonian. (Sam Adams maybe? But when would he have said it?) The excerpted words definitely sounded as though they could be a run-up to "Give me liberty or give me death" so I decided Henry the Virginian was still the best response.

[TenPoundHammer]

This mustache looks better than his last attempt a couple seasons ago. I liked the goatee best, though.

That whole Podcast category was miles over my head.

Ran the Double B category.

"Android" = ENORMOUS MASSIVE HONKING NEGBAIT. And of course I bit on it like a freakin' piranha like I do EVERY FREAKING TIME. I think I clammed 10 answers after that because I was afraid of another trap clue like that.

Blah blah blah Boston = Revere, right? What? Revere is wrong?! Then who the hell else could it be?! Yep, more enormous negbait.

Lach Trash: Spingarn medal

[leszekp]

There's a fair amount of dispute about whether Patrick Henry ever said that, or even the famous line, "Give me liberty, or give me death!". The source of the speech is a biography written many years after Henry's death by William Wirt, who never met Henry. Wirt was so unreliable a biographer that historians used to say, "Is it history, or is it Wirt?". Suspicion is that Wirt took the distant recollections of attendees, and cobbled together his own version of the speech.

https://allthingsliberty.com/2015/07/pa ... thologies/

[StevenH]

Patrick Henry was my first thought, but the mention of Boston turned me away from him since I associate him with Virginia. Then Sam Adams was my next thought. Then I switched to Paul Revere.

[DBear]

welp, I guessed Thomas Paine.

[Category 13]

Ouch. Jordan. I was rooting for her to make a gutsy wager when it counted. That was a rough way to lose. Kyle more than met Jordan halfway by dropping $5000 between a missed DD and a missed $2k clue. Yet when Jordan uncovered the second DD, she chose to stay in second place. That left her $200 behind Kyle going into FJ and $17,601 (plus the chance to play again) behind him when the game was over. Of all the common mistakes we see, I think DD betting to get CLOSE to first place is the most perplexing.

Her Final wager also used mis-guided 'strategy'.

[davey]

Can someone name a "famous...speech" given by Paul Revere? Or really, any other famous speech associated with the early revolutionary period? I'm not coming up with one offhand...So yes, this was a little tricky since the speech was delivered in Virginia by a Virginian...but I couldn't come up with another choice!

[MarkBarrett]

Can someone name a "famous...speech" given by Paul Revere? Or really, any other famous speech associated with the early revolutionary period? I'm not coming up with one offhand...So yes, this was a little tricky since the speech was delivered in Virginia by a Virginian...but I couldn't come up with another choice!

As someone who too many times can fail to key on the right portion of a clue or think things through quickly enough in 30 seconds, I think a Revere detour is not untypical.

18th CENTURY AMERICANS

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
In a famous 1775 speech, he said, “Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston!”

Yes, the simplest path is the category and 1775 speech. It's going to be Patrick Henry. As you have already mentioned the lack of "Virginia" could have caused a problem.

Jonathan good enough to make it on the show may have keyed on Boston, the last word of the clue and went with Revere. He may or may not have had a speech in mind or it could have been the, "One if by land..." line? Or "forged" to silversmith?

Boston and/or Massachusetts opens up the lane for many names in the 1700s. Sam Adams has a mention in this thread already.

For the time period of 1775 (not necessarily the right year) I could see the quote in the clue being attached to Nathan Hale's, "I regret...", something written by Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin, Prescott's, "Don't fire until..." and if someone wants to go way off then even Horace Greeley's, "Go west..."

The clue went 2/3 on the show and has more hits than misses on this board so far. The 33% on the wrong side seems reasonable with different possibilities to not fully process the clue in the best way which can happen to anyone.

[Linear Gnome]

Ouch. Jordan. I was rooting for her to make a gutsy wager when it counted. That was a rough way to lose. Kyle more than met Jordan halfway by dropping $5000 between a missed DD and a missed $2k clue. Yet when Jordan uncovered the second DD, she chose to stay in second place. That left her $200 behind Kyle going into FJ and $17,601 (plus the chance to play again) behind him when the game was over. Of all the common mistakes we see, I think DD betting to get CLOSE to first place is the most perplexing.

Her Final wager also used mis-guided 'strategy'.

I'm not sure I agree. One of the valid strategies is to wager enough to cover Jonathan if he doubles, but not enough to fall below Kyle's MSBIW. Jordan's wager falls into this range.

[clprez]

Something came up about 5 minutes into Jeopardy, so we watched it later from the reddit guy link. I just went to the top entry on the subreddit and when it started up we looked at each other and knew something was wrong, but it didn't click until we saw Alex enter with a goatee and I realized that I was rewatching Tuesday's game.

[davey]

Can someone name a "famous...speech" given by Paul Revere? Or really, any other famous speech associated with the early revolutionary period? I'm not coming up with one offhand...So yes, this was a little tricky since the speech was delivered in Virginia by a Virginian...but I couldn't come up with another choice!

As someone who too many times can fail to key on the right portion of a clue or think things through quickly enough in 30 seconds, I think a Revere detour is not untypical.

18th CENTURY AMERICANS

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
In a famous 1775 speech, he said, “Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston!”

Yes, the simplest path is the category and 1775 speech. It's going to be Patrick Henry. As you have already mentioned the lack of "Virginia" could have caused a problem.

Jonathan good enough to make it on the show may have keyed on Boston, the last word of the clue and went with Revere. He may or may not have had a speech in mind or it could have been the, "One if by land..." line? Or "forged" to silversmith?

Boston and/or Massachusetts opens up the lane for many names in the 1700s. Sam Adams has a mention in this thread already.

For the time period of 1775 (not necessarily the right year) I could see the quote in the clue being attached to Nathan Hale's, "I regret...", something written by Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin, Prescott's, "Don't fire until..." and if someone wants to go way off then even Horace Greeley's, "Go west..."

The clue went 2/3 on the show and has more hits than misses on this board so far. The 33% on the wrong side seems reasonable with different possibilities to not fully process the clue in the best way which can happen to anyone.

If the error is to be made, I kind of like the "forged" to silversmith path...a worthy false TOM! I'm less inclined to credit last words on the gallows as a speech...

[Category 13]

Her Final wager also used mis-guided 'strategy'.

I'm not sure I agree. One of the valid strategies is to wager enough to cover Jonathan if he doubles, but not enough to fall below Kyle's MSBIW. Jordan's wager falls into this range.

Only by complete accident. She wagered $1 less than Jonathan's total. Non logical.
Keep in mind Jonathan might wager only 3002 or so, to protect against a zero wager from Kyle. That leaves him the winner on a TS. As it was, his 3500 still would have won a TS because of Jordon's overbet.

All Jordon need bet is 4201, or 4205 to guard against a sneeky underwager by Kyle, and she acomplishes the same thing.

[Saturnalia]

My thoughts on FJ align with the discussion above. I quickly wrote down the correct answer and spent the rest of the think music trying to talk myself into/out of pivoting to Sam Adams, Paul Revere (yes, that “forged” TOM was tempting) or Thomas Paine, but ultimately stuck to my guns. 3/3 for the week so far, but this was clearly the trickiest of the, um, triumvirate.

[mxc_takeshi]

32 right.

Celebrities' Fashion Lines (1), World History (4), Among Time's 50 Best Podcasts of 2018 (3), This & That (3), Say It 3 Times (3), Where "YU" Goin'? (2)

Leonard Bernstein at 100 (3), Poets & Poetry (3), Hot, Cross Nuns (3), Double "B"s (2), Awards & Honors (3), Here's Your Metal (2)

Lach Trash: Reddit, La Scala; Daily Double: Order of the Garter

The "Boston" made me think of Samuel Adams first, but then I remembered that Patrick Henry's famous speech occurred in 1775, so I went to that.

[OrangeSAM]

I had 3 MA men picked out for FJ!: Hancock, Adams and Adams. Went with J. Adams.

[OldSchoolChamp]

First, let me say I thought this was a hard-fought, competitive game that any of the three players would have deserved to win. Yes, there were some big misses and the wagering was a bit sloppy, but Jordan, in particular, fought gamely all the way and would have been a worthy champion if the breaks had gone differently.

But in analyzing the FJ wagering strategies, the thing that caught my interest was the position of player C, Jonathan. By way of recap:

Kyle: 10,000
Jordan: 9,800
Jonathan: 7,000

Jonathan is caught in a kind of lower-key version of Stratton’s Dilemma. In the classic Stratton scenario, player B is forced to choose between a wager big enough to shut C out and one small enough to stay ahead of A’s residue from a missed shutout bet. One choice wins on a sole miss by the leader but loses on a triple miss; the other, vice versa. I have argued before in favor of the small Stratton bet, on the grounds that, given the assumption of a miss by the leader, the other two players are more likely both to also miss the question than both get it right.

What’s interesting in today’s game is that it’s player C who faces a similar quandary. (Call it the Little Stratton, or, in honor of today’s protagonist, Lau’s Dilemma.) As always, C’s only winning chance is that both players ahead of him miss the final question, and he must base his strategy on that assumption. In a game as close as this one, a miss by A, coupled with the standard shutout bet, washes A out of contention; so it’s B’s strategy that C must focus on.

As has already been mentioned on this thread, Jordan’s best strategy is the “minor shutout” of 4,201, aiming for a score of 2C + 1 = 14,001. A miss would then leave her with a residue of 5,599. To stay ahead of that, Jonathan must wager no more than 1,400, which is not enough to cover Jordan’s score of 9,800 going in. The other choice would be to cover the two leaders by aiming for 2A + 1 = 10,001, ensuring a win when they both miss, regardless of their wagering strategy. This would require a wager of 3,001; a miss would then leave him with only 3,999, below Jordan’s shutout residue of 5,599. He cannot do both; he must choose one strategy or the other.

By analogy with my Stratton reasoning, I contend that (on the assumption that Kyle and Jordan both miss the question) Jonathan is more likely also to miss than to score a sole get. He therefore should stand pat or, at most, try to sweeten his score by no more than 1,400; assuming the other players behave as expected, he can then win the game on a triple miss. But either way, it’s an interesting wagering scenario that I had never thought about before.


For the record, I had Patrick Henry for the FJ answer, with a side hedge bet on Sam Adams. Adams might have said some such thing when exhorting the mob to the Boston Tea Party, but of course that was in ’73.

Would have gone oh for the Hot Cross Nuns category had it not been for Mary Tyler Moore and Elvis Presley in Change of Habit. The one question in my generational wheelhouse, so naturally it was a stand-and-stare for the three players on the stage. Sigh...