GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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seaborgium
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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

Something else I thought of is the fact that in a regular game, when it's late-stage DJ and second place can prevent a lock but third place can't, whether first place has a lock is usually irrelevant to third place's chances of winning.* But under those circumstances in this format, if the player in first place has two wins and the player in second doesn't, it is in third place's interests that first place not win, and therefore they ought to allow second to prevent a lock. And on the other side, if second place has two wins and first doesn't, third should try to preserve the lock. (Of course, the two-game match format obfuscates the standings, so it's understandable that third place might not be able to determine on the fly whether the two-game equivalent of 1st < 2nd + 3rd is attainable, but I think it's interesting that a player who can't win a match might need a particular opponent to win to keep their own hopes alive.)
*
Obviously an overwager from first that opens the game to third is more likely in a non-lock game, and the better consolation prize can be more attainable if second place can reach first and thus has motivation to bet larger, but on a win-lose basis where the leader wagers roughly as expected, third place doesn't change anything for themself by ringing in or by staying clam.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick »

But do locks really matter in a cumulative total tournament? (I’m sorry if that’s a dumb question.)

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

brick wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:22 pm
But do locks really matter in a cumulative total tournament? (I’m sorry if that’s a dumb question.)
The entire tournament isn't cumulative total.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:15 pm
brick wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:22 pm
But do locks really matter in a cumulative total tournament? (I’m sorry if that’s a dumb question.)
The entire tournament isn't cumulative total.
Right. It's match based, and you could theoretically win a match without winning either game in the match, further proving that win, let alone a lock, isn't entirely relevant to winning this Tournament.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

brick wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:19 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:15 pm
brick wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:22 pm
But do locks really matter in a cumulative total tournament? (I’m sorry if that’s a dumb question.)
The entire tournament isn't cumulative total.
Right. It's match based, and you could theoretically win a match without winning either game in the match, further proving that win, let alone a lock, isn't entirely relevant to winning this Tournament.
I wasn't referring to a lock in an individual game, but an overall lock in a multi-game match (hence my parenthetical that two-day scoring makes it hard to determine on the fly whether third place's only bet to prevent a lock is to lay out and hope second place breaks it).

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by brick »

seaborgium wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:11 pm
brick wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:19 pm
seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:15 pm
brick wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:22 pm
But do locks really matter in a cumulative total tournament? (I’m sorry if that’s a dumb question.)
The entire tournament isn't cumulative total.
Right. It's match based, and you could theoretically win a match without winning either game in the match, further proving that win, let alone a lock, isn't entirely relevant to winning this Tournament.
I wasn't referring to a lock in an individual game, but an overall lock in a multi-game match (hence my parenthetical that two-day scoring makes it hard to determine on the fly whether third place's only bet to prevent a lock is to lay out and hope second place breaks it).
Thank you for clarifying. I wasn’t seeing the forest for the trees.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

I got who is "Lewis and Clark Clifford Odets" right away but nearly stumbled saying it. That is quite a tongue twister.

Presidents and the Bible was a kind of sneaky category name because the answer had nothing to do with the president, and the clue only obliquely included a president. It was basically a straight question about the Bible that happened to mention a president.
I'd rather cuddle then have sex. If you're into grammar, you'll understand.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by mas3cf »

floridagator wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 7:44 pm
I got who is "Lewis and Clark Clifford Odets" right away but nearly stumbled saying it. That is quite a tongue twister.

Presidents and the Bible was a kind of sneaky category name because the answer had nothing to do with the president, and the clue only obliquely included a president. It was basically a straight question about the Bible that happened to mention a president.
NHO Clark Clifford but managed to cobble it together from the other two.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Golf »

mas3cf wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 8:01 pm
NHO Clark Clifford but managed to cobble it together from the other two.
You sure you didn’t hear of him when you watched this four months ago. :D

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

Golf wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 8:46 pm
mas3cf wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 8:01 pm
NHO Clark Clifford but managed to cobble it together from the other two.
You sure you didn’t hear of him when you watched this four months ago. :D
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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by 1stlvlthinker »

seaborgium wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:19 pm
Something else I thought of is the fact that in a regular game, when it's late-stage DJ and second place can prevent a lock but third place can't, whether first place has a lock is usually irrelevant to third place's chances of winning.* But under those circumstances in this format, if the player in first place has two wins and the player in second doesn't, it is in third place's interests that first place not win, and therefore they ought to allow second to prevent a lock.
Yup, what Brad tried to do in match 4 by basically putting down the buzzer.
Now swimming in the J! pool.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

I changed my DVR settings from “first run only” to “all episodes” because I saw it wasn’t recording KJ1. Then it didn’t record this because it was labeled as Jeopardy GOAT and not Jeopardy. Not going to bother recording this as seeing recent reruns doesn’t really interest me. I watched this yesterday but wasn’t paying close attention.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gameshowfandanny »

For the reruns, I've noticed some editing changes. The ones I noticed are that the GOAT reruns have a commercial break after the second Double Jeopardy! Daily Double, likely to make up for not having the commercial breaks in the middle of the Jeopardy! round like the regular show. The other one I noticed is that on yesterday's show, when Alex said Game 2 was coming up next, they cut out part of his sentence and replaced it with him saying "tomorrow" because in the original airings, both games in the match aired on the same day, but they obviously couldn't do that with the reruns because they only have a half hour time slot.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

On the Jeopardy FB page there was an article about the first match. Some commented admonishing Alex for not maintaining social distancing and wondered if there were actual people in attendance.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by arjavrawal »

floridagator wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 7:44 pm
I got who is "Lewis and Clark Clifford Odets" right away but nearly stumbled saying it. That is quite a tongue twister.

Presidents and the Bible was a kind of sneaky category name because the answer had nothing to do with the president, and the clue only obliquely included a president. It was basically a straight question about the Bible that happened to mention a president.
Am I the only one who had "Lewis and Clark McNamara..." and then trailed off? I feel like a total idiot.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ParrotRob »

Bamaman wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:21 pm
On the Jeopardy FB page there was an article about the first match. Some commented admonishing Alex for not maintaining social distancing and wondered if there were actual people in attendance.
Consider the source. This is also the same group that largely insists that James "threw" the GOAT tournament to Ken to "let him win" and also largely insist that he threw his 33rd game to Emma Boetcher because he was "tired of playing" and his "little girl wanted Daddy home". And let's not forget the "Ken only won because he got all the daily doubles" which, according to some conspiracy theorists, were strategically placed to favor Ken. ("You DO know the show producers can make the daily doubles appear whenever, wherever, and for WHOMever they like, right?")
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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

ParrotRob wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:52 am
This is also the same group that largely insists that James "threw" the GOAT tournament ... insist that he threw his 33rd game to Emma Boetcher because ... his "little girl wanted Daddy home".
I hadn't seen that one (but then again, I pay no attention to those types). Yeah, being gone two days every two weeks must've been terrible for his daughter. Yeesh.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Bamaman »

alietr wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:24 am
ParrotRob wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:52 am
This is also the same group that largely insists that James "threw" the GOAT tournament ... insist that he threw his 33rd game to Emma Boetcher because ... his "little girl wanted Daddy home".
I hadn't seen that one (but then again, I pay no attention to those types). Yeah, being gone two days every two weeks must've been terrible for his daughter. Yeesh.
Wasn’t she with him for some of the shows? She made Alex a card after his cancer announcement.

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by gameshowfandanny »

gameshowfandanny wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:37 pm
For the reruns, I've noticed some editing changes. The ones I noticed are that the GOAT reruns have a commercial break after the second Double Jeopardy! Daily Double, likely to make up for not having the commercial breaks in the middle of the Jeopardy! round like the regular show. The other one I noticed is that on yesterday's show, when Alex said Game 2 was coming up next, they cut out part of his sentence and replaced it with him saying "tomorrow" because in the original airings, both games in the match aired on the same day, but they obviously couldn't do that with the reruns because they only have a half hour time slot.
One I forgot about. On yesterday's episode, they edited out the part before the Double Jeopardy! round where they showed him talking about his experience on Jeopardy!, likely because they uploaded it on their YouTube channel as "Player Profiles".

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Re: GOAT Tournament Day 1 (1/7/20) Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by talkingaway »

gameshowfandanny wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:33 am
gameshowfandanny wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:37 pm
For the reruns, I've noticed some editing changes. The ones I noticed are that the GOAT reruns have a commercial break after the second Double Jeopardy! Daily Double, likely to make up for not having the commercial breaks in the middle of the Jeopardy! round like the regular show. The other one I noticed is that on yesterday's show, when Alex said Game 2 was coming up next, they cut out part of his sentence and replaced it with him saying "tomorrow" because in the original airings, both games in the match aired on the same day, but they obviously couldn't do that with the reruns because they only have a half hour time slot.
One I forgot about. On yesterday's episode, they edited out the part before the Double Jeopardy! round where they showed him talking about his experience on Jeopardy!, likely because they uploaded it on their YouTube channel as "Player Profiles".
Syndication shows very often cut quite a bit of time out of their "first run" analogues - usually edited for time so they can sell one or two extra commercials. "Friends" is notorious for this.

It doesn't surprise me at all that GOAT does exactly this - and, obviously, the easiest place to cut would be those player profiles they did in game 2 of each match in lieu of the post-question 15 contestant chatter. And, as you noted, they may also cut some of Alex's pre-board filling banter, and redub Alex saying "Game 2 coming up next" with "Game 2 tomorrow".

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they didn't even have to redub it - it would be just as easy, if not easier, for him to do two takes during the show in anticipation of the hshows being chopped up into 30 minute bites. Heck, maybe ABC changes their mind and instead of a full hour of J!, they just want half an hour because they're running Mega Wheel of Fortune - and this gives them that flexibility.

There are a LOT of game shows where you can tell that they add in a toss to a commercial break that never makes it to air. Take "The Wall" - they have to add in a few extra tosses to commercial in case an entire round isn't necessary because the player zeros out.

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