Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

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Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Archivists »

Game Recap for Show #6225, 2011-10-14

CONTESTANTS
Joe Koster, a telephone technician from Pelham, New Hampshire
Megan Benitz, a museum registrar from Wathena, Kansas
Katie Proctor, a stay-at-home mom from Hendersonville, North Carolina (whose 2-day cash winnings total $51,201)

OPENING REMARKS
Alex: Thank you, Johnny. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome once again to Jeopardy! Well, she may be young, she may be a stay-at-home mom, but she is very well-informed on a great variety of subjects. She's our current champion Katie, with over $50,000. Megan and Joe, you're gonna have to work hard today, but who knows? It all depends on the categories, so let's find out what they are in this, the first round of play, the Jeopardy! Round...

JEOPARDY! ROUND CATEGORIES
HOME FROM THE HOUSE (3/5)
SHOP TALK (5/5)
YOU'LL NEED SOME BACKUP (5/5)
AT 33 (5/5, including 1 correct Daily Double)
THE PLANETS (5/5)
INSIDE OUTSIDE (5/5) (Alex: Each correct response will be made up of letters in the word "outside".)

THE RIGHTS & THE WRONGS
Katie: 13 R (including 1 DD), 2 W
Megan: 7 R, 0 W
Joe: 8 R (including 2 rebounds), 1 W

Clues revealed: 30
Triple Stumpers: 2
Jeopardy! Round Potential Lach Trash: $1,800



JEOPARDY! ROUND DAILY DOUBLE
Katie found the Daily Double on the 6th clue. Katie had $1,400, Megan had $400, and Joe had nothing in the bank. Katie made it a True Daily Double, wagering $1,400.

AT 33 $800: On May 29, 1953 he literally found himself on top of the world, along with his guide

SCORES AT THE FIRST BREAK
Katie: $3,800
Megan: $2,200
Joe: $1,800

CONTESTANT INTERVIEWS



Alex: Welcome back. Joe Koster is from Pelham, not "PEL-um", New Hampshire. Am I right, Joe?

Joe: Yes. Pelham.

Alex: Okay. Now I understand that your wife, some years ago when she was pregnant, pulled an April Fools' joke on you. Tell us what that was.

Joe: That's correct. My wife Karen was pregnant with our oldest son Benjamin at the time, but she tried an April Fools' joke on me, where she told me that we were expecting twins. Uh, as it turned out, a couple years later, we actually did have twins--Matson and Sutton--so...

Alex: It--what goes around, comes around.

Joe: Yes, indeed.




Alex: Megan Benitz from Wathena, Kansas. You install exhibitions for museums. One museum in particular?

Megan: I do. I work at the Albrecht-Kemper Museum in St. Joseph, Missouri. We're an American art museum, and it's my job to take down and hang up all the new exhibitions, and I take care of the collection. Um, it's kind of my dream job, so...

Alex: If there is one artwork in your museum--

Megan: Mm-hmm.

Alex: --that is a must-see for people who come to your city, what would that artwork be and which, uh, artist?

Megan: Um, it would be Thomas Hart Benton's, uh, Custer's Last Stand.

Alex: Okay. I would--

Megan: Mm-hmm.

Alex: I was thinking that was probably it.

Megan: Mm-hmm.




Alex: Katie Proctor is our champion. She's a stay-at-home mom. As I mentioned at the beginning of the program, this is a very bright young lady, except... sometimes, and it's a sad story, but you were making arrangements to go to your grandmother's funeral?

Katie: I-I was. My grandmother passed away this past spring, and I was trying to make, uh, flights to go up to Pennsylvania to--to go to the funeral, and it wasn't until I tried to check in about three hours before the plane was supposed to leave that I realized I had made the, uh, arrangements for May instead of April, so we ended up--my husband came home from work. He was gonna, uh, keep the kids, so we got packed and threw everyone in the car and drove 12 hours to Pennsylvania, went to the funeral.

Alex: All right.

TRIPLE STUMPERS IN THE JEOPARDY! ROUND
HOME FROM THE HOUSE $800: With 102 years of combined service, John Conyers & John Dignell of this Midwest state are the House's 2 senior members
(Joe: What is Illinois?)

HOME FROM THE HOUSE $1000: When Steny Hoyer is done whip-ping his fellow Democrats, he can head home to this state's 5th District

SCORES AT THE END OF THE JEOPARDY! ROUND
Katie: $5,000
Megan: $5,000
Joe: $4,400
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Post by Archivists »

DOUBLE JEOPARDY! ROUND CATEGORIES
ARCHITECTURE (4/5, including 1 correct Daily Double)
THE SHERLOCK HOLMES FILE (4/5)
UNWANTED DISTINCTIONS (5/5)
THE NO-FLY LIST (5/5)
"V" IS FOR... (5/5, including 1 correct Daily Double)
THE GREATEST IN SPORTS WITH MIKE & MIKE (5/5) (Alex: You all know who they are.)

THE RIGHTS & THE WRONGS
Katie: 12 R, 3 W
Joe: 9 R (including 1 DD), 1 W
Megan: 7 R (including 2 rebounds and 1 DD), 1 W

Clues revealed: 30
Triple Stumpers: 2
Double Jeopardy! Round Potential Lach Trash: $3,600



FIRST DOUBLE JEOPARDY! ROUND DAILY DOUBLE
Megan snagged the next Daily Double on the 6th clue. Katie had $6,200, Megan had $6,600, and Joe was at $4,800. Megan wagered $1,600.

"V" IS FOR... $1600: this South American ruminant that's related to the guanaco

SECOND DOUBLE JEOPARDY! ROUND DAILY DOUBLE
It was Joe who snatched up the last Daily Double of the game on the 20th clue. Katie had $11,400, Megan had $9,400, and Joe was at $6,400. Joe wagered $5,000.

ARCHITECTURE $800: Cupolas are small domes, but can be pointy instead of dome-shaped when found on these mosque towers

TRIPLE STUMPERS IN THE DOUBLE JEOPARDY! ROUND
THE SHERLOCK HOLMES FILE $1600: His "colorful" first case
(Megan: Um, what is...)
(Katie: What is A Study in Red?)
(Joe: What is The Case of the Scarlet Pimpernel?)

ARCHITECTURE $2000: (Kelly of the Clue Crew does a demonstration with a piece of paper.) Paper can be used to illustrate an architectural concept; holding the edge doesn't inspire much confidence in its structural integrity, but curve it, & you get one of these projecting structures with a simple machine in its name

SCORES ENTERING FINAL JEOPARDY!
Joe: $18,200
Megan: $12,600
Katie: $12,200

FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE

VENUSIAN MONOLOGUES/MARTIAN CHRONICLES
Two-thirds for first place. Stratton's Dilemma.
Joe: Wager $7,001 to cover Megan.
Megan: You ought to wager to cover Katie, but since you cannot win on a Triple Stumper if you do so, you should choose between wagering $0 and maximizing your winnings by betting all $12,600. You are in Stratton's Dilemma, calling for a wager of more than $11,800 (to shut out Katie) or less than $1,400 (risking the possibility of being passed from behind by Katie). Go with the smaller bet if you believe a Triple Stumper is more likely than a singleton miss by Joe.
Katie: Consider risking between $401 and $1,000. This will top a $0 wager by Megan while still beating Joe on the Triple Stumper (should Joe wager to cover Megan's doubled score).

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
This nation lost its direct access to the Pacific around 1880 but retains a navy that patrols its rivers & a large lake

FINAL SCORES
Katie: $12,200 - $10,000 = $2,200 (What is Brazil?) (3rd place: $1,000)
Megan: $12,600 - $6,000 = $6,600 (What is Venezuela) (2nd place: $2,000)
Joe: $18,200 + $7,001 = $25,201 (What is Bolivia?) (New champion: $25,201)
(Alex: It was in the War of the Pacific and it was bad news for this country.)
...
(Alex: [Revealing Joe's response] They lost their access to the sea to Chile.)

Total Potential Lach Trash: $5,400

GAME DYNAMICS
Image

CORYAT SCORES
Joe: $14,000, 17 R (including 1 DD), 2 W
Megan: $12,600, 14 R (including 1 DD), 1 W
Katie: $11,600, 25 R (including 1 DD), 5 W
Combined Coryat: $38,200

BATTING AVERAGES
Katie: 25/59 = .424
Joe: 18/59 = .305
Megan: 14/59 = .237
Team: 57/63 = .905

MISCELLANEOUS INTERESTING CLUES
SHOP TALK $400: Gap, Inc., not only owns The Gap & Old Navy, it also owns this chain of stores whose logo is seen here

SHOP TALK $800: The home store of this gourmet cookware retailer uses the pineapple logo seen here, long a symbol of hospitality

THE PLANETS $600: Its volcano Olympus Mons is the highest mountain in the solar system
(Katie: What is Jupiter?)

YOU'LL NEED SOME BACKUP $1000: & the Blue Notes
(Katie: Who is Harold?)
(Alex: Give me more.)
(Katie: ... [shakes head] No.)

THE GREATEST IN SPORTS WITH MIKE & MIKE $400: (Mike & Mike deliver the clue.) The most bizarre sports story I know was the Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding kneecapping fracas

Well, I'd say equally twisted was the June 28, 1997 boxing match between these 2 heavyweights that featured teeth as well as fists

THE GREATEST IN SPORTS WITH MIKE & MIKE $800: (Mike & Mike deliver the clue.) One of the most amazing performances ever came when Nadia Comaneci scored the first perfect 10 in Olympic gymnastics, that was impressive

Not bad, not bad, but even better might be when Roger Bannister broke this track & field time barrier in 1954

THE GREATEST IN SPORTS WITH MIKE & MIKE $1200: (Mike & Mike deliver the clue.) My greatest inspirational moment ever was Lou Gehrig's farewell speech at Yankee Stadium in 1939, talk about class

Yes, very, very classy, but for pure inspiration, I'll take this coach telling his Notre Dame team to "win one for the Gipper" & then rallying to defeat Army in 1928

THE NO-FLY LIST $1600: The name of this large extinct flightless bird of New Zealand may come from a Polynesian word for "fowl"
(Katie: What is the rhea?)

THE GREATEST IN SPORTS WITH MIKE & MIKE $1600: (Mike & Mike deliver the clue.) Sports perfection for me is exemplified by the 17-0 season of the NFL's Miami Dolphins in 1972

That was outstanding, but I will take this Yankee pitching a perfect game, not in any old ballgame, but during the World Series

THE GREATEST IN SPORTS WITH MIKE & MIKE $2000: (Mike & Mike deliver the clue.) One of the greatest coaches ever has got to be Phil Jackson; he's won 11 titles, something even Red Auerbach couldn't do

Yeah, Phil's a legend, no doubt about it, but I'll pick this college basketball wizard who won 10 men's NCAA titles from 1964 to 1975
(Alex: [*] is right, and if ever Jeopardy! goes to a two-host format, I recommend Mike & Mike. Those guys are fun. All right, less than a minute to go now, Joe.)

UNWANTED DISTINCTIONS $1600: Ireland (not us profligate Americans) is ranked highest in amount of this related to GDP: 1,305%
(Katie: What is saving?)

CORRECT RESPONSES
(Edmund) Hillary
Michigan
Maryland
a vicuña
minarets
A Study in Scarlet
a cantilever
Bolivia
Banana Republic
Williams-Sonoma
Mars
Harold Melvin
Tyson & Holyfield
the 4-minute mile
Knute Rockne
the moa
(Don) Larsen
(John) Wooden
debt
DWS
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by DWS »

This was a pretty competitive game. Nice win by Joe.

Sherlock Holmes is a category that would be on my dream board.

I guessed Colombia for FJ, forgetting my South American geography.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by econgator »

DWS wrote:This was a pretty competitive game. Nice win by Joe.

Sherlock Holmes is a category that would be on my dream board.

I guessed Colombia for FJ, forgetting my South American geography.
I did at first, but then I got a little better picture in my head, so I switched to the equally incorrect Argentina. :)

Sorry, Katie, but I have to say it: Jupiter? :P

Congrats Joe on the win.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by thenextofken »

Very well-played game today. Katie obviously showed herself to be an excellent player but I wasn't crazy about the FJ bets by the ladies. Meagan's bet didn't cover a 2x bet by Katie, and in addition, it would've cost her the win had Joe missed. Katie should not have bet more than $1000 so as to win in case of a TS. In any case, Katie may well go down as one of the best players not to make the TOC.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by alamble »

I love Greeny and Golic, and I love sports categories, but geez, those clues went on forever.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by jeff6286 »

The Western Hemisphere
This nation lost its direct access to the Pacific around 1880 but retains a navy that now patrols its rivers & a large lake.
Spoiler
What is Bolivia? Katie said Brazil, and Megan said Venezuela.
Joe Koster: $18,200+$7,001=$25,201, now a 1-day champion with $25,201
Megan Benitz: $12,600-$6,000=$6,600
Katie Proctor: $12,200-$10,000=$2,200
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by jeff6286 »

alamble wrote:I love Greeny and Golic, and I love sports categories, but geez, those clues went on forever.
Agreed, agreed, and agreed. It was actually quite similar to the Young and the Restless category earlier this week, as the first half of each video was completely meaningless, only serving to kill time before the actual clue was given in the second half of the reading. At least they managed to clear the board, although how many of us were screaming at Alex to shut up and let the players finish the game when he was blabbering about Mike & Mike maybe taking over the show some day?

Man, I badly misunderstood that Final Jeopardy! clue. I was trying to think of a country that may still have Atlantic Ocean access, but lost its Pacific Ocean access, and I was thinking it had something to do with the building of the Panama Canal, even though that makes absolutely no logical sense. Even given that faulty presumption, my knowledge of Central American geography is so poor that I was basically taking a random 1 in 6 shot at guessing the right country, assuming that it wasn't Panama. I went with Nicaragua, for no real reason.

Looking back now, I see that since the clue pointed out that the country's navy only patrols its rivers and a large lake, that obviously means that the country has no ocean access at all, which naturally means that it must be one of the two landlocked countries in South America, so at least I would have had a 50/50 shot with Bolivia or Paraguay. At least I was in good company, as 2 of the 3 players seemed to miss that same crucial part of the clue that I did. Had the word Pacific been replaced by the word Ocean, I'm fairly certain that I would have deduced what the meaning of the clue was, and at least given myself a 50/50 chance by guessing one of the two landlocked countries. Granted, the writing of the clue would have been a little clunky with Ocean in place of Pacific, but I'm not so sure it's a very well written clue to begin with, if the players really did misinterpret it in the same way that I did.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by teapot37 »

I thought that was a well-known "factoid" about Bolivia. (Much like how the father in The Sound of Music was a captain in the Austrian navy.)
Not many people can say they've lost four times on Jeopardy!.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by Bamaman »

I figured out they were going for a landlocked country and knew which two in South America are landlocked. Vaguely remembered that bit about Bolivia losing their seaport and went with them.

Agree the M&M category went on too long, but I suppose they needed both of them to speak during each clue to play up the back and forth banter they employ on the show.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by lisa0012 »

jeff6286 wrote:
alamble wrote:I love Greeny and Golic, and I love sports categories, but geez, those clues went on forever.
Man, I badly misunderstood that Final Jeopardy! clue. I was trying to think of a country that may still have Atlantic Ocean access, but lost its Pacific Ocean access, and I was thinking it had something to do with the building of the Panama Canal, even though that makes absolutely no logical sense. Even given that faulty presumption, my knowledge of Central American geography is so poor that I was basically taking a random 1 in 6 shot at guessing the right country, assuming that it wasn't Panama. I went with Nicaragua, for no real reason.
Seconding both of these. Love M&M but the setup was irritating. I also read the FJ! clue exactly the way you did. Frustrating, since Latin American geography is very strong for me. I'll blame it on having a day off...

Nice game by all.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by alietr »

Sorry to see you lose, Katie, but nice little run. How did the two of you think that Brazil and Venezuela are landlocked? I know, I know, it's tough up there, but they've got an awful lot of coastline between them.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by opusthepenguin »

DWS wrote:This was a pretty competitive game. Nice win by Joe.

Sherlock Holmes is a category that would be on my dream board.

I guessed Colombia for FJ, forgetting my South American geography.
I dithered between Paraguay and Bolivia, the only two landlocked countries in the Americas. My gut told me to go with Bolivia, but what does it know? I went with Paraguay instead because it's closer to that ocean on the right which, dyslexically, I was thinking of as the Pacific.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by katiedidwhat »

Thanks, everyone. I am beyond happy with how things turned out, and mostly I'm sad that I don't ever get to do it again. Clearly I should have studied South American geography a bit more (not to mention astronomy ;) ), but I missed the clue that would have led me to landlocked. Although I did waffle momentarily about Bolivia, but it wouldn't have mattered since Joe got it right anyway. My wager is completely my own fault: I stink at game theory, and my only thought was "Go big or go home."

Joe and Megan were both delightful; Joe's oldest son is a freshman in college and I pointed out to my husband that his need for tuition money is therefore slightly more immediate than mine, especially with twins graduating in a few years as well. If you look closely on the Hometown Howdies (and this will be the only time I mention mine, oy vey), Megan and I are wearing the exact same jacket, just in different colors. We realized it in the green room and had a laugh.

The Sherlock Holmes category was delightful: my maiden name is Doyle, and I felt obligated to do well. Plus, I watched one of the new BBC Sherlock episodes on the plane to LA, so it was fresh in my mind. That's what caused the neg on "A Study in Scarlet," since the first of those episodes is "A Study in Pink" and I knew the color had been changed but had a faulty synapse as to what the correct color was.

Before I left, I wanted to cover my expenses and not make a fool of myself. I did that. In the back of my mind, I had three unspoken goals: 1. Win a game; B. Have a lock game; and III. Say "Make it a true Daily Double." I got to do all three, and sweep a category as well. Not to mention breaking the "curse of the giant-killer" by winning an additional game, and being the first woman champion this season. I cannot complain one bit.

I wish Joe the best of luck next week (it will be weird to go back to not knowing how it ends), and I hope that Joon did fantastically in the ToC.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by opusthepenguin »

thenextofken wrote:Very well-played game today. Katie obviously showed herself to be an excellent player but I wasn't crazy about the FJ bets by the ladies. Meagan's bet didn't cover a 2x bet by Katie, and in addition, it would've cost her the win had Joe missed. Katie should not have bet more than $1000 so as to win in case of a TS. In any case, Katie may well go down as one of the best players not to make the TOC.
The scores going into Final were:

Katie: 12,200
Megan: 12,600
Joe: 18,200

Megan's wager would depend on how she feels about the category. If she feels confident, she should bet $11,801 to cover Katie doubling her score. (The J! Archive calculator says in that case she should just go all in since she won't win a triple stumper anyway. But that's silly. It's better to come in second than third, and she can still do that on a triple stumper if she bets $11,801. An extra $1,000 in consolation prize may not match the dreams she took with her to Burbank, but it ain't chump change either.)

If Megan doesn't like the category, she should bet $399 or less. That will keep her ahead of Katie and Joe in a triple stumper.

Instead, Megan made a bet halfway in between confident and un-confident, which gets her the advantage of neither world.

If I'd been Katie, I'd have wagered $800. I'd think, well I can't catch Megan if she wagered confidently and wins, so there's no point in a big wager. A big wager would just make me the loser in a triple stumper. But with a small wager, If Megan wagers confidently and loses, I'll be way ahead regardless of whether I get it right. I'll win the triple stumper and at least get $2,000 if only she and I are stumped. And if Megan wagers un-confidently (that $399 or less we were talking about), I'll be ahead of her if I get it right even if she does too, and ahead of Joe as well if he gets it wrong. And either way, whether Megan bets small or big, an $800 wager makes me the winner if both of them are stumped.

If that makes sense.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by dhkendall »

katiedidwhat wrote:The Sherlock Holmes category was delightful: my maiden name is Doyle, and I felt obligated to do well. Plus, I watched one of the new BBC Sherlock episodes on the plane to LA, so it was fresh in my mind. That's what caused the neg on "A Study in Scarlet," since the first of those episodes is "A Study in Pink" and I knew the color had been changed but had a faulty synapse as to what the correct color was.
When I saw your performance in that category, I was hoping to come here and read that Sherlock Holmes is a wheelhouse category for you or something; not quite what I was expecting, but I was impressed at how you nailed all those clues.

(I'm wondering if you were upset at all about Alex's seeming dismissal of stay-at-home-mommery, yesterday during the interview he said "And Katie doesn't have a job - no, I'm sorry, she's a stay-at-home mom ... " and today starting with "she may be a stay at home mom ... ")

Like teapot, I thought this was a well-known factoid, and was surprised at people either picking S. American countries on different coasts, or having to coin-flip between Bolivia and Paraguay. I guess I learn more things than just the obvious watching the show and participating on the message board ...

As for Mike & Mike, does no one remember that they were on before? (I'm pretty sure it was last season, and I think it may have been a Friday show too, but I'm not as positive about that). I don't seem to recall as much hate for them there - I kind of enjoyed their banter, they did read quicker than Oprah or the Y&R cast, you have to give them that ...
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by DBear »

How did the contestants keep mangling "A Study in Scarlet"? That is elementary Sherlock Holmes knowledge. Loved Mike & Mike, ran them, Planets and Sherlock Holmes. Went 4/5 in Home from the House, picking up Conyers being from Michigan, but missed Hoyer from Maryland (guessed New York).
FJ was an instaget. Best game of the week for me.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by econgator »

katiedidwhat wrote:Plus, I watched one of the new BBC Sherlock episodes on the plane to LA, so it was fresh in my mind.
I love their take on Holmes. Looking forward to the next series ... whenever that may be. 2012, I think.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by katiedidwhat »

dhkendall wrote:(I'm wondering if you were upset at all about Alex's seeming dismissal of stay-at-home-mommery, yesterday during the interview he said "And Katie doesn't have a job - no, I'm sorry, she's a stay-at-home mom ... " and today starting with "she may be a stay at home mom ... ")
My internal monologue was something along of the lines of "What, raising three children doesn't count?" My kids are 7, 5, and 2, and the youngest didn't start sleeping through the night alone until, oh, a couple of months ago. I worked outside the home full-time until my oldest was almost two, and I can assure you that staying at home is harder.

Although an anecdote about baking Christmas cookies probably didn't help my case, even if it's been a family tradition for 25 years.
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Re: Friday, October 14, 2011 Game Recap & Discussion (SPOILE

Post by alietr »

katiedidwhat wrote:(and this will be the only time I mention mine, oy vey), Megan and I are wearing the exact same jacket, just in different colors. We realized it in the green room and had a laugh.

The Sherlock Holmes category was delightful: my maiden name is Doyle,
An Irish Jew?!!? And it would have been funnier if you guys had the same purses.
katiedidwhat wrote:Before I left, I wanted to cover my expenses and not make a fool of myself. I did that. In the back of my mind, I had three unspoken goals: 1. Win a game; B. Have a lock game; and III. Say "Make it a true Daily Double." I got to do all three, and sweep a category as well. Not to mention breaking the "curse of the giant-killer" by winning an additional game, and being the first woman champion this season. I cannot complain one bit.
You did all that in spades. No, I don't think you have anything to complain about, and you certainly passed the 'fool' threshold.
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