Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by theFJguy »

FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
THE NEW TESTAMENT

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
Paul’s letter to them is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations

Amy Schneider: 2400+1000=3400 (1 match point)
Andrew He: 13200-3201=9999 (winner - 2 match points)
Sam Buttrey: 14800-11601=3199

Correct response:
Spoiler
Hebrews (Andrew – Philippiaes) (Sam – Romans)

Daily Doubles
Andrew: 400+1000
Amy: 5800-5000
Andrew: 5800+5800

Coryats
Amy: 7400
Andrew: 8200
Sam: 14800

Combined: 30,400

Scores at the end of the Jeopardy! Round
Amy: 3800
Andrew: 3800
Sam: 3600
Last edited by theFJguy on Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

The players did a coordinated opening with double hands swinging around and pointing to their right. I suspect Ken may have done it towards the board before revealing the J! round categories but it was not shown.

DD3 was hiding and only all of the $400 and $800 clues remained. Sam had control. He at least picks an $800 clue, but goes to COMPOUND WORDS where DD2 already played. :roll: I can hear NOOOOOOOO! from many viewers on that ugh moment.

Amy got caught on DD2 with one of those dreaded word/phrase origin types. Bye bye 5 large and her chance to win when sole solving the FJ! clue.

I blew the FJ! clue as I strongly considered the right one and went away from it to Corinthians for having two books so more quotes. :oops:

The chance was there for 1-1-1 and it was time to hold one's breath as Ken went to Sam. Nope, another check mark for Andrew. Andrew's 8200 Coryat was pedestrian, but he knows how to play the game and that can count for a lot.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Xu Donym »

In the case of a poorly pinned FJ clue, will they invite a contestant back? Not only does Hebrews never mention Paul as its author; authorities going as far back as the fourth-century Eusebius have acknowledged that Paul was not the author of Hebrews. So the clue's phrasing of "Paul's letter to them..." would rule out Hebrews for any knowledgeable contestant. Better to have said, "This letter sometimes attributed to Paul..." or "This letter that was traditionally/originally ascribed to Paul..."

It turns out that the Greek language used by the author of the book of Hebrews is far more refined than anything found in the actual Pauline epistles (generally considered to include Galatians, 1&2 Corinthians, 1 Thessalonians, Philemon, Philippians, and Romans). Yes, Sam and Andrew both answered with actual Pauline letters, while Amy did not -- yet she was the one ruled correct. Ouch!
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OntarioQuizzer »

Xu Donym wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:56 pm In the case of a poorly pinned FJ clue, will they invite a contestant back?
It's really hard to do that in the context of a Tournament of Champions final.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Xu Donym »

OntarioQuizzer wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:00 pm
Xu Donym wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:56 pm In the case of a poorly pinned FJ clue, will they invite a contestant back?
It's really hard to do that in the context of a Tournament of Champions final.
Exactly! And thus the importance of careful clue curation in a TOC. In a TOC, you don't want to include a clue written so sloppily that it rules out the intended response. Mr. Davies, between now and the next TOC you really need to work on improving the accuracy of your writers' room!
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

I thought this was a really good FJ! :mrgreen:
As Xu noted, there are quibbles about the authorship, but you had to think "Who would be targeted w/OT quotes?"
Clearly led to Hebrews IMO.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OntarioQuizzer »

DBear wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:06 pm I thought this was a really good FJ! :mrgreen:
As Xu noted, there are quibbles about the authorship, but you had to think "Who would be targeted w/OT quotes?"
Clearly led to Hebrews IMO.
Depending on what Biblical scholar you talk to, there are 0, 1, or 2 correct responses to this clue, making it 100% inappropriate for the show.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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This game is a draw for the Intermediate Form of Shore's Conjecture. The second-place player bet "small." --Bob
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by BrigadierSolo13 »

I also chose Corinthians at it has 2 epistles to choose from.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OntarioQuizzer »

Xu Donym wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:56 pm Better to have said, "This letter sometimes attributed to Paul..." or "This letter that was traditionally/originally ascribed to Paul..."
Not only this, but it's not like they were coming up to their clue length limit at all. It would have been very easy to lengthen the clue to pin it better.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cf1140 »

Both Sam and Amy might need some settlement money if Andrew wins the tournament. There was no way Amy could win, but if Sam wins Amy is in much better shape as 1-1-1 is better than being down 1-2
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cf1140 »

Shouldn't Ken have said something when he reviews the clues prior to the game?

We wouldn't expect Mayim to know that but a 74 game champion had to have known that about Hebrews.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by OntarioQuizzer »

cf1140 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:50 pm Shouldn't Ken have said something when he reviews the clues prior to the game?

We wouldn't expect Mayim to know that but a 74 game champion had to have known that about Hebrews.
The LDS church is very much a "Paul wrote Hebrews" denomination.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Xu Donym »

cf1140 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:50 pm Shouldn't Ken have said something when he reviews the clues prior to the game?

We wouldn't expect Mayim to know that but a 74 game champion had to have known that about Hebrews.
No one clue writer will know everything about everything, but we would hope that the writers' room overall would catch most stuff like this FJ! problem. We may now be seeing one consequence of Alex's passing, as I don't believe the writers' room has changed much since his death, yet it seems that more and more poorly worded clues are going on-air. Somebody really should look into quality control in the writers' room.

Sadly, though, I do think there's another way to look at this bumble. When all is said and done, Jeopardy! is just a game show. And the game is to know the clue writers' minds, not to know the facts. Sure, it's disappointing that Jeopardy! is not the solid compendium of fact that it once was, but if we think of it as a game show, not as an institution going back nearly 60 years, it is still one of the better game shows, and is surely the best game show Michael Davies has produced. And if we are looking for the Pavlov in today's FJ! rather than the facts, the Pavlov of Hebrews->OT might be enough to warrant that guess. It's exactly the kind of clue that a lazy/ignorant/uninformed writers' room might produce, even if the facts around the clue do not support it.

For the record, though, with her substantial education and her presence as a thoughtfully observant Jew interacting with many Christians, I wouldn't be shocked if Mayim might be aware that, according to the majority of scholars and theologians today, the New Testament book aimed most squarely at "her people" does not have the provenance originally claimed for it. Ken might have missed that kind of detail in Mormon Sunday School, but it impinges on Mayim's interfaith experience.
Last edited by Xu Donym on Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

ERRATUM: American History $200

There were no casualties in the Battle of Fort Sumter.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

LucarioSnooperVixey wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:09 pm ERRATUM: American History $200

There were no casualties in the Battle of Fort Sumter.
$200: This fort, built to protect Charleston, South Carolina, saw the first fatality of the Civil War

https://www.npr.org/2011/04/09/13524792 ... n%20Harbor.
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