Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

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DBear
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

19/0, 18/3
runs: American History, Assonance
trash: Dracula, wedding bells, sleepwalking
betting: :D :( (had guideline) :D :mrgreen:
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ouachiouat »

Yup, immediately ruled out
Spoiler
Hebrews
due to
Spoiler
Paul most likely not writing it
. If I were Sam or Andrew, even though Andrew still won, I'd point that out immediately and hope they'd have a backup clue for FJ!. My guess was Romans....and on 1 site I see that has 84 OT quotes and paraphrases, with the (in?)correct response having 83. Corinthians has 44 when combined, but each individually still has more than the next epistle (Galatians). Another source has Romans at 58 and the intended response at 42.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by ouachiouat »

OntarioQuizzer wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:57 pm
cf1140 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:50 pm Shouldn't Ken have said something when he reviews the clues prior to the game?

We wouldn't expect Mayim to know that but a 74 game champion had to have known that about Hebrews.
The LDS church is very much a "Paul wrote Hebrews" denomination.
While true, I would like to think he'd be aware of the heavily disputed authorship and say that the clue could easily be misinterpreted and ask for it to be pinned better or outright changed.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

56 R (Said Ice Cube instead of LL Cool J. Also missed the bottom three in Heard It In the Movie.)
DD: 3/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MDCSWildcats86 »

DBear wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:06 pm I thought this was a really good FJ! :mrgreen:
As Xu noted, there are quibbles about the authorship, but you had to think "Who would be targeted w/OT quotes?"
Clearly led to Hebrews IMO.
Should have been worded:

Of the 27 books in the NT, the one that in the KJV most liberally quotes the OT.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty »

Did Ken speak the word "somnambulism", or did he leave it at "she sleepwalked"? If the latter, that's an unseemly dumbing down during the ToC.

Playing from the archive, I eventually deduced Queen Latifah, but in real time I'd have needed quotes around "royalty". They seem rather inconsistent in their use of quote marks.

FJ seemed to be pitched at the Baby Bear sort of player. I found it just right.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cf1140 »

Lefty wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:53 pm Did Ken speak the word "somnambulism", or did he leave it at "she sleepwalked"? If the latter, that's an unseemly dumbing down during the ToC.
Yes, the latter. But why is that an unseemly dumbing down?
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Austin Powers »

You don’t have to be Kyrie Irving to know that’s a bad question
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

I went with Ephesians.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Lefty »

cf1140 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:10 pm
Lefty wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:53 pm Did Ken speak the word "somnambulism", or did he leave it at "she sleepwalked"? If the latter, that's an unseemly dumbing down during the ToC.
Yes, the latter. But why is that an unseemly dumbing down?
The clue asks for the affliction, so if Ken had said "somnambulism, or sleepwalking", that would have been fine. After all, not everyone out there will have known the word, but now they'll have a chance to recognize the roots and be ready for it in the future. But to say simply "she sleepwalks" communicates the thought "the card says 'somnambulism', but isn't that rather a big word? Didn't the show take enough risk hiring me without viewers having to study their William F. Buckley 'word-a-day' calendar just to follow? Was that really Merv Griffin's vision?"
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by bkellysky »

This FJ is a major problem.
Paul has not been attributed as the author of Hebrews since the second century. The Catholic Church doesn't even say "Letter from Paul to the Hebrews" anymore.
My wife and I thought Romans, but I haven't checked that yet.
It would have been one win for each player now.
I really thought Sam looked like he was puzzling this out and went with Romans for this reason.

Does tomorrow night's show start with "We are throwing out last night's game due to a not-specific-enough Final Jeopardy clue."?
Maybe it'll be an eight-game tournament.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by twelvefootboy »

bkellysky wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:00 pm This FJ is a major problem.
Paul has not been attributed as the author of Hebrews since the second century. The Catholic Church doesn't even say "Letter from Paul to the Hebrews" anymore.
My wife and I thought Romans, but I haven't checked that yet.
It would have been one win for each player now.
I really thought Sam looked like he was puzzling this out and went with Romans for this reason.

Does tomorrow night's show start with "We are throwing out last night's game due to a not-specific-enough Final Jeopardy clue."?
Maybe it'll be an eight-game tournament.
Thanks for the extra color commentary. My first lookup before coming here was "epistles", and Hebrews wasn't listed. Lots of boardies are all over this.

I think the anti-factual final ending was in order to prepare TV audiences for Donald Trump's election announcement last night. Excellent timing by TPTB!

This show presumably was taped in the 3rd morning session before the lunch break* so the contestants and crew have extra time to commiserate on what they just did. If Sam really had a higher level thought process which negged the accepted answer, he surely will raise the issue. I can't see them airing the episode if they plan to nullify the results and there really isn't a good remedy. And I don't think Standards and Practices would look kindly on too much meddling.
(*the statement about the schedule is of the same high quality as the FJ clue - facts be damned!)

I guessed Corinthians because of a limited Bible knowledge and remembering the title as Paul's letter to the Corinthians. I didn't even know that he didn't not write Hebrews, or something like that.

Second place at FJ may be as good as it is in NASCAR or a world class 1600 meters in track. Tough to see Sam lose, especially under tainted circumstances.
Disclaimer - repeated exposure to author's musings may cause befuddlement.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

Somehow, the complaints do not make me feel any better about missing the FJ, which yes, does have a certain Pavlov quality to it. I just didn't remember Hebrews, and not because of my Biblical study...(I thought all the attributions of Bible books before modern scholarship were "traditional." I'm more surprised to learn Paul actually wrote some letters...)
At the least, the controversy should make a great segment on the podcast! A chance to discuss sourcing of clues...
Last edited by davey on Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cf1140 »

cf1140 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:10 pm
Lefty wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:53 pm Did Ken speak the word "somnambulism", or did he leave it at "she sleepwalked"? If the latter, that's an unseemly dumbing down during the ToC.
Yes, the latter. But why is that an unseemly dumbing down?
The definition of somnambulism is sleepwalking. And the English translation of the opera is THE SLEEPWALKER, not THE SOMNAMBULIST. Somnambulism is just the more scientific term. Does a host need to say pyrexia/contusion/syncope/emesis on a triple stumper?
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

twelvefootboy wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:50 pm

Thanks for the extra color commentary. My first lookup before coming here was "epistles", and Hebrews wasn't listed. Lots of boardies are all over this.
That was a bum list. Whoever wrote it, it's an epistle...
https://www.christianity.com/wiki/bible ... bible.html
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

I got this right because I saw some social media buzz about FJ being inaccurate. Without that, my tackling of the clue likely would have involved me trying to decide between "the writers said Paul's so I can rule out Hebrews" and "the writers obviously want us to make the logical connection of O.T. content to Hebrews, they just made a mistake invoking Paul."

Would fixing the clue have been as simple as changing "Paul's" to "The"?

Also for what it's worth, I found this page with a chart of N.T. quotations of the O.T. The page itself says the chart has no scholarly value, but doing a text search of the page, I found they have more quotes from Romans (48) than from Hebrews (41).
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by earendel »

davey wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:09 pm
twelvefootboy wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:50 pm

Thanks for the extra color commentary. My first lookup before coming here was "epistles", and Hebrews wasn't listed. Lots of boardies are all over this.
That was a bum list. Whoever wrote it, it's an epistle...
https://www.christianity.com/wiki/bible ... bible.html
Actually, in form and language it's not an epistle. It doesn't follow the traditional epistolary form (identification of writer, salutation, destination, etc.). It reads more like a sermon or lecture. Grammatically and stylistically it is a far cry from Paul's - Hebrews represents some of the most elegant Greek in the New Testament, while Paul's is not (run-on sentences as the most egregious example).
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by earendel »

seaborgium wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:05 pm I got this right because I saw some social media buzz about FJ being inaccurate. Without that, my tackling of the clue likely would have involved me trying to decide between "the writers said Paul's so I can rule out Hebrews" and "the writers obviously want us to make the logical connection of O.T. content to Hebrews, they just made a mistake invoking Paul."

Would fixing the clue have been as simple as changing "Paul's" to "The"?
Or "Of the epistles ascribed to Paul..."
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

earendel wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:47 am
seaborgium wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:05 pm I got this right because I saw some social media buzz about FJ being inaccurate. Without that, my tackling of the clue likely would have involved me trying to decide between "the writers said Paul's so I can rule out Hebrews" and "the writers obviously want us to make the logical connection of O.T. content to Hebrews, they just made a mistake invoking Paul."

Would fixing the clue have been as simple as changing "Paul's" to "The"?
Or "Of the epistles ascribed to Paul..."
I thought the point was it's not ascribed to Paul and it's not an epistle...?
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Re: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

davey wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:11 am I thought the point was it's not ascribed to Paul and it's not an epistle...?
Did I miss something? I didn't think there was any controversy that it was an epistle (work in the form of a letter)?

Edit: I see I missed this:
earendel wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:46 am in form and language it's not an epistle. It doesn't follow the traditional epistolary form (identification of writer, salutation, destination, etc.). It reads more like a sermon or lecture.
Wikipedia, while titling its article as "Epistle", notes similarly: "Hebrews does not fit the form of a traditional Hellenistic epistle, lacking a proper prescript. Modern scholars generally believe this book was originally a sermon or homily, although possibly modified after it was delivered to include the travel plans, greetings and closing."
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