Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, econgator, dhkendall, trainman

Archivists
Fan-created archive of games and players
Posts: 5590
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 pm
Contact:

Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Archivists »

J! Round
Archivists
Fan-created archive of games and players
Posts: 5590
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Archivists »

DJ! Round
Archivists
Fan-created archive of games and players
Posts: 5590
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Archivists »

Box score
theFJguy
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:21 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by theFJguy »

FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
MUSICAL THEATER

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
The pair at the center of tumult in this long-running show were originally to be a Jewish girl & a Catholic boy

Cris Pannullo: 29400-5221=24179 (12x = $380,881)
David Stiasny: 10400-6401=3999
Etienne Lepine: 8400+8400=16800

Correct response:
Spoiler
West Side Story (Cris – Tony & Tina’s Wedding) (David – Fiddler on the Roof)

Daily Doubles
David: 5400-2600
Etienne: 2400+2400
Cris: 17200+5000

Coryats
Cris: 26000
David: 13000
Etienne: 6800

Combined: 45,800

Scores at the end of the Jeopardy! Round
Cris: 8800
David: 4400
Etienne: 1200
User avatar
MarkBarrett
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 14346
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:37 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

Etienne took a nil opening segment so well done to work up to 2nd place by the end.

Ken got in a couple of moments with his comment about pineapple on a certain dish and his BATMAN VILLAINS impression.

Sure, just what we needed an audio clue in the World Cup category about a noisemaker.

Cris was ready to come back after his little taping break although David managed to make a decent showing. The DD1 wager was a groaner, but not surprising.

The FJ! clue had me take a mulligan as I at first imagined Danny & Sandy before realizing the switch I needed.
User avatar
BrigadierSolo13
Hopeful First Time Swimmer
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:40 am

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by BrigadierSolo13 »

I got so locked in on The Merchant of Venice that by the time I reread the category, it was too late. Oh well.
User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 3949
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Having read a history of the correct-response show published recently to coincide with a movie release, I knew the fact in the Final, but I still managed to get it wrong because I locked on to the part about it being long-running and that sent me to a different star-crossed lovers play, The Fantasticks, famously the longest-running musical, with an off-Broadway run of 42 years. The correct-response show only ran for 2 years in its original run; a 2009 revival ran for only slightly longer; and a 2020 revival was canceled after 24 (non-preview) performances because of the pandemic.

"Long-running" is not a term I would associate with the correct response, in any incarnation.

Phantom is long-running. Cats was long-running. Heck, even relative newcomers Wicked and Jersey Boys could be described as long-running. The correct-response show was comparatively barely a blip on the radar, and will not be found on any list of long-running shows.
User avatar
MarkBarrett
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 14346
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:37 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MarkBarrett »

User avatar
LucarioSnooperVixey
Carrying Letters and Lemons
Posts: 2696
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:41 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

60 R
DD: 3/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
Douglas Squasoni
tomwolf2008
Just Starting Out on JBoard
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:35 am

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by tomwolf2008 »

Robert K S wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:30 pm Having read a history of the correct-response show published recently to coincide with a movie release, I knew the fact in the Final, but I still managed to get it wrong because I locked on to the part about it being long-running and that sent me to a different star-crossed lovers play, The Fantasticks, famously the longest-running musical, with an off-Broadway run of 42 years. The correct-response show only ran for 2 years in its original run; a 2009 revival ran for only slightly longer; and a 2020 revival was canceled after 24 (non-preview) performances because of the pandemic.

"Long-running" is not a term I would associate with the correct response, in any incarnation.

Phantom is long-running. Cats was long-running. Heck, even relative newcomers Wicked and Jersey Boys could be described as long-running. The correct-response show was comparatively barely a blip on the radar, and will not be found on any list of long-running shows.
I agree, though I guess it depends on one's definition of "long running" as the correct response did have a tons of revivals, tours, and international versions (the West-End Production ran over 1,000 performances) since the original version and arguably more in the mainstream conscious (due to lots of schools teach it during primary education years) than some of the actual much more long running shows.

Incidentally, Wicked actually is already the 5th longest running Broadway show and as it doesn't seem to be closing anytime soon, would likely to get to the 4th in the next year or so, that's definitely a "long running" show.
User avatar
DBear
Denier of Pop Culture
Posts: 2252
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:57 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

26/1, 21/3
runs: Health & Med, Rhymes, Pineapple, "C"
Political Party, Quite a Year,

trash: 1967, 1776 :shock: ,
betting: :( (matched David) :D :D :mrgreen:
remembered hearing about this when they rolled out the remake.
Xu Donym
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Xu Donym »

Robert K S wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:30 pm "Long-running" is not a term I would associate with the correct response, in any incarnation.
May I put you in touch with a seminarian (or maybe a stage manager) :P who'll confirm that West Side Story, with more than 1,200 Broadway performances across its various revivals in the last 60 years, may in fact be considered long-running when we note that there are fewer than 100 plays or musicals that have had more Broadway performances? Subjective wording? Yeah. But at least it's not outright wrong, or provably false. We need to relax our standards to meet the show where it is at present.
User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 3949
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Xu Donym wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:17 pm
Robert K S wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:30 pm "Long-running" is not a term I would associate with the correct response, in any incarnation.
May I put you in touch with a seminarian (or maybe a stage manager) :P who'll confirm that West Side Story, with more than 1,200 Broadway performances across its various revivals in the last 60 years, may in fact be considered long-running when we note that there are fewer than 100 plays or musicals that have had more Broadway performances? Subjective wording? Yeah. But at least it's not outright wrong, or provably false. We need to relax our standards to meet the show where it is at present.
I am only an armchair seminarian when it comes to musicals but I know enough to know that "been around a long time" is not the meaning of "long-running". "Had some revivals over the decades" is not "long-running". "Had a lot of performances in various runs" is not "long-running". (Are we going to count touring companies? Community theater?) By these definitions, Chess is long-running. By these definitions, Rocky Horror is long-running. By these definitions, Anyone Can Whistle is long-running. Everyone I know in theatre has been in these shows. It doesn't make them "long-running". (These examples are cherry-picked: cult favorites that were notoriously short-running.) tomwolf2008 says West End ran for over 1,000 performances, but, depending on how many shows they did a week, that's still probably under two years. (In fact, it was about a year and a half--a shorter run than some of the Broadway runs.) To my mind, a show's got to hit a decade mark to be called "long-running".
Xu Donym
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Xu Donym »

Robert K S wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:18 pm To my mind
That's exactly the point! When it stumbles, Jeopardy! now seems to be less about facts than about knowing the clue-writers' minds. At least we can say, if the two are in conflict, that the minds win out over the facts! So, while I appreciate your point that 1,200 shows in 60 years is a different kind of "long-running" than 1,200 shows in 4 years, I can see how the subjective and vague "long-running" found its way into yet another poorly written clue. And while I might propose "perennial favorite" or "several times reprised" as better alternatives to "long-running," those would merely be different subjective choices, and someone in the writers' room could just as easily mount a subjective defense of "long-running" as preferable. And it's their minds that make the clues, so we had better get better used to them!
jan
Contributor
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:57 am
Location: Cambridge, MA

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by jan »

David's answer of "Fiddler on the Roof" was not completely wrong. Chava, one of Tevye's daughters, elopes with Fyedka, a young Christian, resulting in her being disavowed by her parents.
Xu Donym
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Xu Donym »

jan wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:36 pm David's answer of "Fiddler on the Roof" was not completely wrong. Chava, one of Tevye's daughters, elopes with Fyedka, a young Christian, resulting in her being disavowed by her parents.
Guess what? Fiddler on the Roof has had more than twice as many Broadway performances as West Side Story. And in less time than it took West Side Story to reach half-as-many performances. So it satisfies "long-running" far better than does West Side Story. Unfortunately, unless Fyedka was Orthodox in the play but was originally written as Catholic, David's answer fails on that part of the clue. And "center of tumult" might be a stretch when we consider the play's busy goings-on, though it would surely be less of a stretch than some other stretches made by J! clue-writers.
User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 3949
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Xu Donym wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:55 pm Jeopardy! now seems to be less about facts than about knowing the clue-writers' minds
Kind of like in this clue from tonight: "Teddy Roosevelt was strong as one of these in getting around 25% of the 1912 popular vote for president". Nothing in the category explanation required that a name of a political party be the response, leaving the clue totally unpinned. Literally any noun capable of presenting in the singular should have been acceptable as the response (particularly considering that 25% is not a "strong" showing).
Xu Donym
Loyal Jeopardista
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Xu Donym »

Robert K S wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:55 pm
Xu Donym wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:55 pm Jeopardy! now seems to be less about facts than about knowing the clue-writers' minds
Nothing in the category explanation required that a name of a political party be the response, leaving the clue totally unpinned.
Are you sure? That would be on Ken for failing to explain, as the category title "RSVP to my political party" would seem to me to do the pinning for all the clues in the category. The clue points us to TR's 1912 campaign getting 25% of the vote, so it's a reasonable inference from the category title that the missing piece is the candidate's political party in that election.

Thus "Bull Moose." But wait! The category title asked for the name of the political party, not for popular nicknames. Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 was the candidate of the Progressive Party, not of a non-existent "Bull Moose" party. "Bull Moose" was just the widespread nickname. As the category wasn't "RSVP to the nickname of my political party" one could certainly quibble. With a clue seeking something other than the name of the political party in a category pinned to the candidates' political parties, the writers gave us a somewhat "Rube Goldberg" roundabout way to the desired response. Oops! Again, it's almost a Pavlov if we think "what the writers must intend" but if we take the clue literally we may stumble.
Last edited by Xu Donym on Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
alietr
Site Admin
Posts: 8362
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

Augh. I've had it up to here with categories like "Vocabulary Words". If they're going to have a category like that (and I hate that type of wordplay to begin with), at least leave the word up on the screen so viewers can see it. Drives me crazy.
User avatar
econgator
Let's Go Mets!
Posts: 10309
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:32 am

Re: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by econgator »

alietr wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:11 pm Augh. I've had it up to here with categories like "Vocabulary Words". If they're going to have a category like that (and I hate that type of wordplay to begin with), at least leave the word up on the screen so viewers can see it. Drives me crazy.
Amen
Post Reply