Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

This is where all of the games are discussed.

Moderators: alietr, trainman, econgator, dhkendall

User avatar
Woppy T
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 960
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:59 am

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woppy T »

Anyone going to chime in on the Ewan McGregor response? I didn’t hear a “Mc” but I’m guessing the judges did.
User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 5249
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

Woppy T wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:57 am Anyone going to chime in on the Ewan McGregor response? I didn’t hear a “Mc” but I’m guessing the judges did.
Did you hear "(M)'Gregor"? Because I think that would be considered an acceptable pronunciation. See, e.g., M'Naughten, of rule/test fame.
davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 6030
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

Robert K S wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:14 am
Woppy T wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:57 am Anyone going to chime in on the Ewan McGregor response? I didn’t hear a “Mc” but I’m guessing the judges did.
Did you hear "(M)'Gregor"? Because I think that would be considered an acceptable pronunciation. See, e.g., M'Naughten, of rule/test fame.
It's something akin to that. It's not a well articulated Ewan Mc Gregor but it isn't Ewan Gregor either...
User avatar
LucarioSnooperVixey
Carrying Letters and Lemons
Posts: 3513
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:41 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by LucarioSnooperVixey »

60 R
DD: 3/3
FJ: :mrgreen:
Douglas Squasoni
User avatar
DBear
Denier of Pop Culture
Posts: 2548
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:57 pm

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

theFJguy wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:58 pm FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
COUNTRIES OF AFRICA

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
At one time a province of the Roman Empire, this kingdom is known to Arabic scholars as Al-Maghrib Al-Aqsa, "the far west"

Kelly Barry: 8200+8000=16200
Melissa Klapper: 24400+401=24801 (New Champ)
Jake Garrett: 12400+12400=24800

Correct response:
Spoiler
Morocco
Last time I checked, Mauretania was farther west than Morocco :x
User avatar
alietr
Site Admin
Posts: 8980
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

DBear wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:51 pm
theFJguy wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:58 pm FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
COUNTRIES OF AFRICA

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
At one time a province of the Roman Empire, this kingdom is known to Arabic scholars as Al-Maghrib Al-Aqsa, "the far west"

Kelly Barry: 8200+8000=16200
Melissa Klapper: 24400+401=24801 (New Champ)
Jake Garrett: 12400+12400=24800

Correct response:
Spoiler
Morocco
Last time I checked, Mauretania was farther west than Morocco :x
Other than Egypt, the Romans didn't get very far from the Mediterranean in Africa.
User avatar
DBear
Denier of Pop Culture
Posts: 2548
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:57 pm

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by DBear »

alietr wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:00 pm
DBear wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:51 pm
theFJguy wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:58 pm FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
COUNTRIES OF AFRICA

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
At one time a province of the Roman Empire, this kingdom is known to Arabic scholars as Al-Maghrib Al-Aqsa, "the far west"

Kelly Barry: 8200+8000=16200
Melissa Klapper: 24400+401=24801 (New Champ)
Jake Garrett: 12400+12400=24800

Correct response:
Spoiler
Morocco
Last time I checked, Mauretania was farther west than Morocco :x
Other than Egypt, the Romans didn't get very far from the Mediterranean in Africa.
still a Roman province, tho
User avatar
alietr
Site Admin
Posts: 8980
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by alietr »

DBear wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:04 pm
alietr wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:00 pm
DBear wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:51 pm
theFJguy wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:58 pm FINAL JEOPARDY! CATEGORY
COUNTRIES OF AFRICA

FINAL JEOPARDY! CLUE
At one time a province of the Roman Empire, this kingdom is known to Arabic scholars as Al-Maghrib Al-Aqsa, "the far west"

Kelly Barry: 8200+8000=16200
Melissa Klapper: 24400+401=24801 (New Champ)
Jake Garrett: 12400+12400=24800

Correct response:
Spoiler
Morocco
Last time I checked, Mauretania was farther west than Morocco :x
Other than Egypt, the Romans didn't get very far from the Mediterranean in Africa.
still a Roman province, tho
Huh. I was looking at a map of the empire at its height, and it didn't show Mauritania. I stand corrected.
seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 8941
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

I got it off "kingdom"; there are only three kingdoms in Africa, and the other two are way south (Lesotho and eSwatini).
User avatar
Woppy T
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 960
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:59 am

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Woppy T »

davey wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:00 am
Robert K S wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:14 am
Woppy T wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:57 am Anyone going to chime in on the Ewan McGregor response? I didn’t hear a “Mc” but I’m guessing the judges did.
Did you hear "(M)'Gregor"? Because I think that would be considered an acceptable pronunciation. See, e.g., M'Naughten, of rule/test fame.
It's something akin to that. It's not a well articulated Ewan Mc Gregor but it isn't Ewan Gregor either...
Yeah, if I had been on the show I probably would have said “M’Gregor” and expected that to be Ok. I didn’t hear an M, but I’ll assume the judges did.
User avatar
floridagator
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:39 am

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

When George McGovern ran for president in 1972, the New York Times frequently referred to him in headlines as M'Govern.

As a Jeopardy rule, I doubt the c of Mc would be essential before certain fricative sounds, such as McCarthy, McGibbon, McCoy, McGregor, McKinley. But the c would be essential in names having a stop, such as McDonald, McTavish, McBain.
I'd rather cuddle then have sex. If you're into grammar, you'll understand.
seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 8941
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

floridagator wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:42 pm When George McGovern ran for president in 1972, the New York Times frequently referred to him in headlines as M'Govern.

As a Jeopardy rule, I doubt the c of Mc would be essential before certain fricative sounds, such as McCarthy, McGibbon, McCoy, McGregor, McKinley. But the c would be essential in names having a stop, such as McDonald, McTavish, McBain.
I agree with you on whether the names you gave need the c pronounced, but your terminology of "fricative" and "stop" is confused. G, C, and K are velar plosives (at least in the names you cited) whereas fricatives are airflow consonants (English's are f, v, s, z, h, sh, zh, and th). "Stop" is another term for a plosive, so I think you would have to qualify it with "non-velar" in the context where you're using it.
User avatar
floridagator
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 2192
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:39 am

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by floridagator »

seaborgium wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:59 pm
floridagator wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:42 pm When George McGovern ran for president in 1972, the New York Times frequently referred to him in headlines as M'Govern.

As a Jeopardy rule, I doubt the c of Mc would be essential before certain fricative sounds, such as McCarthy, McGibbon, McCoy, McGregor, McKinley. But the c would be essential in names having a stop, such as McDonald, McTavish, McBain.
I agree with you on whether the names you gave need the c pronounced, but your terminology of "fricative" and "stop" is confused. G, C, and K are velar plosives (at least in the names you cited) whereas fricatives are airflow consonants (English's are f, v, s, z, h, sh, zh, and th). "Stop" is another term for a plosive, so I think you would have to qualify it with "non-velar" in the context where you're using it.
Be sure to spend as much time as you can arguing with random strangers on the internet.
I'd rather cuddle then have sex. If you're into grammar, you'll understand.
User avatar
cinemaniax7
Humble Pi
Posts: 1604
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:04 pm
Location: Old Hickory, TN

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cinemaniax7 »

Woppy T wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:57 am Anyone going to chime in on the Ewan McGregor response? I didn’t hear a “Mc” but I’m guessing the judges did.
I stopped the show, backed up, and listened to the response five times and never heard anything but "Gregor." Then I saw this article this evening:

'Jeopardy!' Champ's Ewan McGregor 'Error' Sparks Fan Furor, Debate
seaborgium
Undefeated in Reruns
Posts: 8941
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by seaborgium »

floridagator wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:23 pm
seaborgium wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:59 pm
floridagator wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:42 pm When George McGovern ran for president in 1972, the New York Times frequently referred to him in headlines as M'Govern.

As a Jeopardy rule, I doubt the c of Mc would be essential before certain fricative sounds, such as McCarthy, McGibbon, McCoy, McGregor, McKinley. But the c would be essential in names having a stop, such as McDonald, McTavish, McBain.
I agree with you on whether the names you gave need the c pronounced, but your terminology of "fricative" and "stop" is confused. G, C, and K are velar plosives (at least in the names you cited) whereas fricatives are airflow consonants (English's are f, v, s, z, h, sh, zh, and th). "Stop" is another term for a plosive, so I think you would have to qualify it with "non-velar" in the context where you're using it.
Be sure to spend as much time as you can arguing with random strangers on the internet.
I thought you might learn something. That'll show me!
User avatar
Robert K S
Jeopardy! Champion
Posts: 5249
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Robert K S »

After going back and listening to this a bunch of times, I don't hear any kind of "M" sound at all. I don't even hear a space where an "M" sound might be. It's just plain "Who is EwanGregor?" I think this justifies an Archive note.
User avatar
AndyTheQuizzer
Lots and Lots of Interviews
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:01 am
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada
Contact:

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AndyTheQuizzer »

Robert K S wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:47 am After going back and listening to this a bunch of times, I don't hear any kind of "M" sound at all. I don't even hear a space where an "M" sound might be. It's just plain "Who is EwanGregor?" I think this justifies an Archive note.
I vehemently disagree with this.

1) I hear what could be construed as "McGregor"; if anything, there was an audio blip, but I hear "McGregor" there.
2) There is absolutely no need for J! Archive to give the "Gregor" crowd any further ammunition.
Andy Saunders
J! Archive Founding Archivist
Publisher - The Jeopardy! Fan
davey
Watches Jeopardy! Way Too Much
Posts: 6030
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by davey »

OntarioQuizzer wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:05 am
Robert K S wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:47 am After going back and listening to this a bunch of times, I don't hear any kind of "M" sound at all. I don't even hear a space where an "M" sound might be. It's just plain "Who is EwanGregor?" I think this justifies an Archive note.
I vehemently disagree with this.

1) I hear what could be construed as "McGregor"; if anything, there was an audio blip, but I hear "McGregor" there.
2) There is absolutely no need for J! Archive to give the "Gregor" crowd any further ammunition.
Yes. This is the way people speak, with elisions. Jeopardy! is not an elocution contest, or a game of gotcha. Does anyone believe that Melissa learned the actor's name, but forgot it has a first syllable?
If one requires more evidence than common sense the "Newsweek" "article" posted here earlier notes-
Video footage viewed by Newsweek at a slower speed showed that Klapper did say McGregor's last name correctly and in full during the round.
User avatar
AndyTheQuizzer
Lots and Lots of Interviews
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:01 am
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada
Contact:

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by AndyTheQuizzer »

davey wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:18 am If one requires more evidence than common sense the "Newsweek" "article" posted here earlier notes-
Video footage viewed by Newsweek at a slower speed showed that Klapper did say McGregor's last name correctly and in full during the round.
Thank you for pointing this out (I try to avoid giving clicks to vox Twittuli clickbait) — I would say that the sentence there is reason enough not to include any further notes. I believe J! Archive should only include notes or errata when the error is unequivocal, and I do not believe this meets that standard.
Andy Saunders
J! Archive Founding Archivist
Publisher - The Jeopardy! Fan
User avatar
cf1140
Not Jeopardy! Material
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Monday, March 20, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by cf1140 »

cinemaniax7 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:58 pm
Woppy T wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:57 am Anyone going to chime in on the Ewan McGregor response? I didn’t hear a “Mc” but I’m guessing the judges did.
I stopped the show, backed up, and listened to the response five times and never heard anything but "Gregor." Then I saw this article this evening:

'Jeopardy!' Champ's Ewan McGregor 'Error' Sparks Fan Furor, Debate
It's strange to see this is what Newsweek has become. A J clickbait site. I mean Good Housekeeping was weird but Newsweek is just...sad
Post Reply