Tuesday, May 23, 2023 Game Recap and Discussion (SPOILERS)

[brick]

What an utterly terrible final clue. It’s a crappy set up for this exact kind of gotcha moment, and the distinction between the two spellings isn’t meaningful in the way that the distinction between revelation and revelations is. Ugh.

[econgator]

I've never heard of either of these characters, so no chance for me.

[twelvefootboy]

Well THAT was a dirty trick.

I missed it and thought it was a dirty trict.

Some uneven rulings during the game I thought.
1) Lynn (fixed misspelling, twelvefootgirl's name is Lyn, lol) said "trephanation" according to my CC and my ears. I would think a neuroscientist would have picked up on that, and I expected a reversal.
2) Ben got a couple of multiple choice responses. I don't know the pronunciation of quahog, so maybe one of them was OK. I don't remember the other clue right now, but he even admitted he gave several wrong variants. (eta - might have been the tuvalu tongue tanglement)
3) Of course dinosaur eggs are fossil fuels .

I was going to pass on watching for a while because of 8 runaways, but am glad I saw this one. Ben got bitten by the first challenger in position to topple him and did not get the courtesy of a suicide wager from second like so many other superchamps got. I'm not qualified to have an opinion on the harsh FJ ruling but it's pretty harsh. Mayim should have elaborated on the ruling for the ignorant mainstream audience or at least enunciated the difference more distinctly.

[seaborgium]

1) Lyn said "trephanation" according to my CC and my ears. I would think a neuroscientist would have picked up on that, and I expected a reversal.

I was right with you (and it probably would have saved the game for Ben if she had been ruled wrong), but I looked it up and "trephination" is another spelling.


I was spoiled by OQ's bump in the "New Old Games" thread (I was able to get Much Ado About Nothing from the clue and assumed the inspiration for the bump would hinge on that and I could just assume that I'd get it right too), but I don't think I could have named Beatrice or guessed her from the "blessed" hint.

[Woof]

I can imagine social media blowing up over this one a la emanciptation (I saw what you did there, FloridaGator). Tough loss for Ben. It’ll be fun to see him in the TOC.

[RetiredDoc]

Another Beatrice and Benedict here

[Robert K S]

- Spelled the name"Benedict," just like Ben.
- WOULD have spelled the name "Benedict" if I'd thought of the right response.
- WOULD have spelled the name "Benedick" if I'd thought of the right response.

I only had "Benedict" (with the T of shame) but paired him with Rosalind from As You Like It.

[squarekara]

I majored in English at UCLA which required taking two Shakespeare classes, but Much Ado wasn't part of the assigned reading.

The RSC brought their "Much Ado" w/Derek Jacobi to Royce Hall for the Olympic Arts Festival! Dude, where were you?

[davey]

I majored in English at UCLA which required taking two Shakespeare classes, but Much Ado wasn't part of the assigned reading.

The RSC brought their "Much Ado" w/Derek Jacobi to Royce Hall for the Olympic Arts Festival! Dude, where were you?

Emma Thompson has some crisp k' sounds when she addresses her then-husband in this clip. But it's not just the English - Denzel Washington manages to pronounce the name with precision too...

[opusthepenguin]

Well THAT was a dirty trick.

I missed it and thought it was a dirty trict.

[opusthepenguin]

I majored in English at UCLA which required taking two Shakespeare classes, but Much Ado wasn't part of the assigned reading.

The RSC brought their "Much Ado" w/Derek Jacobi to Royce Hall for the Olympic Arts Festival! Dude, where were you?

Well, maybe if SOMEONE had called and invited me.

[opusthepenguin]

I majored in English at UCLA which required taking two Shakespeare classes, but Much Ado wasn't part of the assigned reading.

The RSC brought their "Much Ado" w/Derek Jacobi to Royce Hall for the Olympic Arts Festival! Dude, where were you?

Emma Thompson has some crisp k' sounds when she addresses her then-husband in this clip. But it's not just the English - Denzel Washington manages to pronounce the name with precision too...

Spoiler

I hear it now that I'm listening for it of course. I'm not sure if I heard it back when I saw the movie. It's been a couple of decades. But even back then the Berlioz spelling would have been ingrained, and that might have overruled my ears.

[ACW]

Well THAT was a dirty trick.

I didn't really think so - the name is Benedick, not Benedict, and these are famous characters from a famous play. Kinda saw it coming, just surprised it came from Ben. I wonder - were they warned that they had to be precise about the spelling?

Was it a mis-spelling, or did he mis-remember the name?

I mean, it was correctly ruled wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me. The heck kinda name is "Benedick" anyway?

What an utterly terrible final clue. It’s a crappy set up for this exact kind of gotcha moment, and the distinction between the two spellings isn’t meaningful in the way that the distinction between revelation and revelations is. Ugh.

Isn't the latter just a plural form of the former?

[davey]

Well THAT was a dirty trick.

I didn't really think so - the name is Benedick, not Benedict, and these are famous characters from a famous play. Kinda saw it coming, just surprised it came from Ben. I wonder - were they warned that they had to be precise about the spelling?

Was it a mis-spelling, or did he mis-remember the name?

I mean, it was correctly ruled wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me. The heck kinda name is "Benedick" anyway?

What an utterly terrible final clue. It’s a crappy set up for this exact kind of gotcha moment, and the distinction between the two spellings isn’t meaningful in the way that the distinction between revelation and revelations is. Ugh.

Isn't the latter just a plural form of the former?

What kind? The clue said. Latin.
The poster is referring to the fact that J! doesn't accept revelations when the Bible book of Revelation is called for...I think mistaking a character's name is more fundamental than making a plural out of a singular. The latter is a common slip, but I reject the idea that the name of the hero of one of Shakespeare's most popular plays for 400 years is obscure...
They even made a movie of it...with Denzel Washington and Keanu Reeves!

[Bamaman]

I've never heard of either of these characters, so no chance for me.

Same here, so I put T&C. Strange Mayim didn’t comment on the slight misspelling. There seemed to be an edit after his reveal but there should have been an explanation of why he was wrong as her saying the right name sounded a lot like what he wrote down.

Lynn seems like a nice lady but I wish she’d call for clues faster.

[davey]

Lynn seems like a nice lady but I wish she’d call for clues faster.

Right, I enjoyed her upset win, the first opponent to challenge Ben, but must each pick be a decision? Just go to the next one...

[CyrusChan]

owch

[brick]

Well THAT was a dirty trick.

I didn't really think so - the name is Benedick, not Benedict, and these are famous characters from a famous play. Kinda saw it coming, just surprised it came from Ben. I wonder - were they warned that they had to be precise about the spelling?

Was it a mis-spelling, or did he mis-remember the name?

I mean, it was correctly ruled wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me. The heck kinda name is "Benedick" anyway?

What an utterly terrible final clue. It’s a crappy set up for this exact kind of gotcha moment, and the distinction between the two spellings isn’t meaningful in the way that the distinction between revelation and revelations is. Ugh.

Isn't the latter just a plural form of the former?

What kind? The clue said. Latin.
The poster is referring to the fact that J! doesn't accept revelations when the Bible book of Revelation is called for...I think mistaking a character's name is more fundamental than making a plural out of a singular. The latter is a common slip, but I reject the idea that the name of the hero of one of Shakespeare's most popular plays for 400 years is obscure...
They even made a movie of it...with Denzel Washington and Keanu Reeves!

The difference between a single Revelation and multiple Revelations has extraordinary implications theologically. That, not an obsession with plurals, is the reason they are so precise on that count, IMO. It dramatically changes the nature of the thing being referred to.

The Benedict/ Benedick error is less substantive, AND when you take into account that the earliest extant written versions of the plays were published years after Shakespeare died, it feels pointless to hinge the whole thing on a small detail like this, that arguably may not be absolutely correct.

I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s obscure at all. I certainly am not. This very small distinction betwixt those two names is a little obscure… but not the play or the names of the characters.

I think there’s even a clue in the archive where the name was rendered Benedict. Someone on Reddit mentioned.

[Robert K S]

Someone on Reddit mentioned.

I can't find the video to check, but I wouldn't put a lot of weight on the accuracy of the archived version of that 1996 ToC game. For example, it renders Renoir's and Park's given names unhyphenated. The title of A Midsummer Night's Dream is given as "A Midsummer Nights' Dream". This is a Robert McIelwain entry and it's possible he put it in from an audiorecording.

I notice now that Andy already made the same point over there 13 hours ago.

I like these two refutations of Ben's own forfeiture here:

Agenbit
I mean Shakespeare himself barely ever spelled his own name the same way twice. He would have ruled it correct. I am sure. I disagree with your own ruling against yourself. Could you imagine? Time traveling William Shakespeare goes on Jeopardy, an answer is"Who is William Shakespeare", but he spells his name "Shackspear" that time and it's ruled incorrect?

Lycanthrowrug
English Ph.D. here. I thought it was an unfair ruling or at least a questionable one, especially since they have often made the point on Final Jeopardy that they don't rule against people for misspelling. Ben clearly had the right characters while the others missed them entirely. I don't think I've ever seen a ruling on Final Jeopardy that irked me more. 'Benedick' is simply an early Modern English form of 'Benedict."

[ACW]

Ah, Revelation not being capitalized threw me.

Also, Shakespeare spelling his name differently is something I did not know.