Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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Anachronism
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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AndyTheQuizzer wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:18 pm
Anachronism wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:35 pm
Trevor807 wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:39 pm There's a reason why Celebrity winners weren't invited to the TOC under Friedman. What was Davies' thinking here?
Either fun through humiliation, or you have to wonder if he's planning a Charles Van Doren moment.
I wasn't talking to you the last time I ventured into this thread, but I certainly am now.

Do you honestly believe that anyone in the game show business—regardless of what show it is—would actually risk their career on such a maneuver?

If you actually and honestly believe that, I think you might need to take a break from watching the show for awhile, because it's certainly not been healthy for you.
You like to use that particular phrase about taking a break when you disagree with someone - you often tend to argue ad hominem rather than the subject at hand - I've noticed that about you and it concerns me since you help run this place. There's sometimes a tension here that I'd more expect in a crazier place like Reddit. Maybe it's just everywhere now because people have forgotten how to disagree with each other without resorting to name-calling and personal invective. We follow our politicians' example.

But yes, I have been taking a break through the tournaments. As for my health, I think it's OK. My doctor says I'm in great shape for my age, especially heart and other measurables, but suggested I exercise more. I bought some cardio equipment over the BF sales. But I think you're being disingenuous in your concern.

I don't know what he's capable of doing - maybe someone could believe so adamantly that he was taking game shows to the next level that he might consider such a move. His tenure here certainly suggests a dissociation with what made Jeopardy such a success. I honestly think he's done just about everything wrong since he took over. Maybe he would consider rigging the game. That's a maybe, not an accusation - I think he's that bad at show-running. What is an accusation is that I think he governs as if he is more important than the franchise.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by Trevor807 »

OOC what is your opinion of Mike Richards' tenure compared to Davies'? (Not defending Davies, just asking.)
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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Trevor807 wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:43 pm OOC what is your opinion of Mike Richards' tenure compared to Davies'? (Not defending Davies, just asking.)
He's always going to be known for his Al Haig moment. That suggests some of the same type of criticism (he thought he was bigger than the franchise). The parade of guest hosts was him, right? That was tough - about half-way through I took my first break from the show in at least a decade.

As for the sexist stuff - his whole career was based on that until he started at TPIR. I'm not sure why that surprised anyone. I had forgotten that he was the one who fired Rich Fields and Roger Dobkowitz from TPIR. I liked TPIR when I was younger, kinda outgrew it, but those two provided stability and were terrific in their roles - Dobkowitz made every aspect of that production work, day to day.

So, anyway, not a fan. Both have done a lot of harm, for different reasons. If you had told me five years ago that I would have taken two long breaks from watching Jeopardy, I would have laughed. There have been many periods over the last ten years when Jeopardy was the only non-sports program I've watched.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by Trevor807 »

And what was your opinion on Davies when he first took over? I'd imagine it's only worsened over time, like mine did.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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Trevor807 wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 11:08 pm And what was your opinion on Davies when he first took over? I'd imagine it's only worsened over time, like mine did.
Generally positive.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by trainman »

Ike Barinholtz has been a LearnedLeague participant for 28 seasons now (just as long as me), so it’s not like he’s some random celebrity who lucked into the Celebrity Jeopardy! championship without having any trivia bonafides. (I think if he doesn’t do well in the ToC, it will be due to not being as familiar with the rhythms of regular J! game play as the “civilian” contestants, more so than a lack of knowledge on his part.)
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by Trevor807 »

Anachronism wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 11:21 pm
Trevor807 wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 11:08 pm And what was your opinion on Davies when he first took over? I'd imagine it's only worsened over time, like mine did.
Generally positive.
Oof. Well, I can relate then.

I was on the Davies train for a good while (even putting my misplaced trust on his decisions like the SCC or changing the longstanding tourney format), until the one-two punch of the grossly offensive Brian Laundrie CJ! clue and his defensive attitude in response to the 11/16/22 Final Jeopardy! clue on Inside Jeopardy! plus his failure to apologize for either made me realize that he wasn't half as competent as I once thought. My opinion on Davies has only plummeted since then with each move he's made, to the point where I can't even respect him as a person anymore because he's so out of touch he can't even back up his claims of supposedly loving the show nor do any thinking before actually implementing his ideas. I smile when I see my old posts on Reddit or Twitter praising or defending Davies and his bright ideas, because they're among my takes that aged like milk the most.

In short, while I once regarded Davies as an excellent showrunner who loved the show, I now see him as a joke to the industry whose claims of loving the show are nothing but hot air.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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Anachronism wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:26 pm
AndyTheQuizzer wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:18 pm
Anachronism wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 5:35 pm
Trevor807 wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 4:39 pm There's a reason why Celebrity winners weren't invited to the TOC under Friedman. What was Davies' thinking here?
Either fun through humiliation, or you have to wonder if he's planning a Charles Van Doren moment.
I wasn't talking to you the last time I ventured into this thread, but I certainly am now.

Do you honestly believe that anyone in the game show business—regardless of what show it is—would actually risk their career on such a maneuver?

If you actually and honestly believe that, I think you might need to take a break from watching the show for awhile, because it's certainly not been healthy for you.
You like to use that particular phrase about taking a break when you disagree with someone - you often tend to argue ad hominem rather than the subject at hand - I've noticed that about you and it concerns me since you help run this place.
Your distaste of a producer's choices led to implying he'd commit a federal crime, and you're lecturing about ad hominems?
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by Anachronism »

seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:28 am Your distaste of a producer's choices led to implying he'd commit a federal crime, and you're lecturing about ad hominems?
My argument is that he's so out-of-touch with what makes Jeopardy work that I wouldn't be surprised if he considered that action. People who consider their role more important than the game might think they couldn't possibly get caught. It could even be subtle, like category choice. This is irrelevant to the concept of an ad hominen argument, since I am not having an argument with Davies.

The point trainman made that Barinholtz is a longtime LL participant seems more along the lines of a rebuttal, rather than simply throwing out a non-sequitur about rhetoric. If so, it seems unlikely Barinholtz himself would get caught up in something like that. But I'd maintain he's untested in the Jeopardy pacing and difficulty of boards.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by seaborgium »

Anachronism wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:15 am
seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:28 am Your distaste of a producer's choices led to implying he'd commit a federal crime, and you're lecturing about ad hominems?
My argument is that he's so out-of-touch with what makes Jeopardy work that I wouldn't be surprised if he considered that action. People who consider their role more important than the game might think they couldn't possibly get caught. It could even be subtle, like category choice. This is irrelevant to the concept of an ad hominen argument, since I am not having an argument with Davies.
I didn't specifically call it an ad hominem. It's certainly specious, and Andy was right to call you out for it.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:40 am
Anachronism wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:15 am
seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:28 am Your distaste of a producer's choices led to implying he'd commit a federal crime, and you're lecturing about ad hominems?
My argument is that he's so out-of-touch with what makes Jeopardy work that I wouldn't be surprised if he considered that action. People who consider their role more important than the game might think they couldn't possibly get caught. It could even be subtle, like category choice. This is irrelevant to the concept of an ad hominen argument, since I am not having an argument with Davies.
I didn't specifically call it an ad hominem. It's certainly specious, and Andy was right to call you out for it.
Then why make the connection? I don't think the suggestion is specious. Unlikely, but I explained why I thought it was possible. You disagree.

What does Davies have to gain by changing the game to add a celebrity to the ToC? If the celebrity fails badly, it hurts that product. So there's a lot of pressure on Davies related to this idea. It might be as simple as watering down the ToC - questions more like a "normal" board, more contestants, maybe make sure the celebrity doesn't draw a top seed in the first round. That could be enough.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by seaborgium »

Anachronism wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 2:30 am
seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:40 am
Anachronism wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:15 am
seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:28 am Your distaste of a producer's choices led to implying he'd commit a federal crime, and you're lecturing about ad hominems?
My argument is that he's so out-of-touch with what makes Jeopardy work that I wouldn't be surprised if he considered that action. People who consider their role more important than the game might think they couldn't possibly get caught. It could even be subtle, like category choice. This is irrelevant to the concept of an ad hominen argument, since I am not having an argument with Davies.
I didn't specifically call it an ad hominem. It's certainly specious, and Andy was right to call you out for it.
Then why make the connection? I don't think the suggestion is specious. Unlikely, but I explained why I thought it was possible. You disagree.

What does Davies have to gain by changing the game to add a celebrity to the ToC? If the celebrity fails badly, it hurts that product. So there's a lot of pressure on Davies related to this idea. It might be as simple as watering down the ToC - questions more like a "normal" board, more contestants, maybe make sure the celebrity doesn't draw a top seed in the first round. That could be enough.
I think "He might intend to engage in criminal actions if he's putting a celeb into the ToC" is a worse assault on one's character than "You should take a break from watching/posting if you're this bothered about the show," and when one who says the former gets on someone's case for saying the latter, it reeks of hypocrisy.

I'm sure Davies has realistic enough expectations of having a celeb champ in the ToC. By comparison, the Teen Tournament champs who participated in ToCs didn't do super great (4 out of 14 won their QFs, 4 more were wild cards, and the other six didn't make it to the semis, and no one made the finals), and I don't think the TT, the ToC, or the show at large was tarnished for having included them.

Seeding the ToC, which has been done for almost all of them, ain't pulling a Charles van Doren.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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seaborgium wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 3:05 am
I think "He might intend to engage in criminal actions if he's putting a celeb into the ToC" is a worse assault on one's character than "You should take a break from watching/posting if you're this bothered about the show," and when one who says the former gets on someone's case for saying the latter, it reeks of hypocrisy.

I'm sure Davies has realistic enough expectations of having a celeb champ in the ToC. By comparison, the Teen Tournament champs who participated in ToCs didn't do super great (4 out of 14 won their QFs, 4 more were wild cards, and the other six didn't make it to the semis, and no one made the finals), and I don't think the TT, the ToC, or the show at large was tarnished for having included them.

Seeding the ToC, which has been done for almost all of them, ain't pulling a Charles van Doren.
I wasn't claiming an assault on my character. I was explaining that an ad hominem like questioning my health wasn't an effective argument. There's also a small difference between the potential actions of the producer of the show based on his past performance in that specific role and an anonymous anytime-test wannabe participating in an argument.

There are words you throw around like hypocrisy and specious that I don't think you comprehend.

When it comes to the integrity of the competition, which the letter of the law may or may not fairly address, any advantage - whether it's through seeding or category choice or giving away answers, it's all pretty much the same animal. You may disagree, of course. Davies has a lot to lose here. This is a big risk he's taking.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be warned or worse soon enough, so if I don't reply again, either that's the reason or I just don't because we are very much off-topic now. I don't consider myself the board cop type and have a high tolerance for tangents, but I can understand that others seeing all these posts this morning might be annoyed.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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Funny how the suggestion of a federal crime derails a discussion!
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by Trevor807 »

Before this, we all let this derail into another Davies argument. Guess that passed the time while we waited for any further news on the Mayim situation, eh?
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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My thoughts:

I think Davies is a fan of the show I just disagree with his vision. I think the last two commissioners love baseball but I don’t like interleague play, wild cards, universal DH, and starting the tenth with a runner on second.

I don’t know enough about Richards’ tenure to judge him. He did some bad stuff at TPIR, but so did Bob Barker and he was a national icon when he died. I thought the whole parade of guest hosts was a bit much. He didn’t seem to have any real plan for after Alex died. I get it’s a little tacky to talk about it but you have to face reality. Ken was going to host the next taping even if Alex hadn’t died when he did and from comments I’ve heard it was pretty obvious (off camera) how bad he was.

I agree his worst sin was naming himself as host.

As for Davies, I didn’t have an opinion when he was hired. I thought he ruined WWTBAM when he had all the “special” weeks. Supermodels? But he was starting from scratch there and all he had to do when handed the keys to Jeopardy was to just not drink and drive.

The hosting situation was not his doing. Mike was going to be the main host and Mayim was going to host the prime time specials. Making her the main host after Mike stepped down was the best they could do at the time. I think they should have just made Ken the main host without the swapping back and forth and left her to do what she was hired to do.

I also don’t get the point of the special tournaments. Sure, some people got a tough draw having to face Amy or Matt but that’s always been the case. Was there some formula to determine who got a second chance and who didn’t? And the CWC, which was never really explained on air? Now they’re going to have a secret tournament to see who gets back on.

The college tournament was ill conceived, leaving one SF out of the finals. And was anyone really excited about seeing the high school players from five years ago again?

And the celebrity champ in the TOC? Sure, he’s in LL but he’s a career D-E player. So am I and I don’t think I’d do well in the TOC.

No, I don’t think Davies will do anything to rig the show and risk going to jail and ending the show forever. Giving Ike an easy first round might help him but he’d still have to win.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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AndyTheQuizzer wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:18 pm Do you honestly believe that anyone in the game show business—regardless of what show it is—would actually risk their career on such a maneuver?
Well, yeah. For at least two reasons. 1, people do stupid things. 2, it’s already happened.

Do I think Davies would do this? Of course not. But it’s not outside the realm of possible.

It’s ok for boardies here to take a negative view of Jeopardy goings on. It’s ok for boardies to have a differing opinion from yours. It’s subjective, someone doesn’t need mental help if their views are different.

If everybody here agreed on every facet of Jeopardy there would be nothing to talk about.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by Trevor807 »

Bamaman wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:41 am The college tournament was ill conceived, leaving one SF out of the finals. And was anyone really excited about seeing the high school players from five years ago again?
You can blame that on Richards too. Before his sacking ABC already ordered nine episodes, and I read that the original format before said sacking involved teams (a gimmick from the All-Star Games that Alex and the staff wound up disliking), and that Davies and co. scrapped the team aspect but still needed to work around the nine-episode order when coming up with a new format. But I get the feeling they should've thought it through better.
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

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Trevor807 wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 4:11 pm
Bamaman wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:41 am The college tournament was ill conceived, leaving one SF out of the finals. And was anyone really excited about seeing the high school players from five years ago again?
the original format before said sacking involved teams (a gimmick from the All-Star Games that Alex and the staff wound up disliking)
I could be wrong, but I interpreted the teams concept to be teams of two with the players playing simultaneously, which was also a gimmick that Alex and the staff wound up disliking (from the family Jeopardy! that evolved into the first Back to School Week by dropping the parent half of the teams).
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Re: Mayim to no longer host syndicated Jeopardy!

Post by mfc248 »

Robert K S wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:03 pm
Trevor807 wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 4:11 pm
Bamaman wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:41 am The college tournament was ill conceived, leaving one SF out of the finals. And was anyone really excited about seeing the high school players from five years ago again?
the original format before said sacking involved teams (a gimmick from the All-Star Games that Alex and the staff wound up disliking)
I could be wrong, but I interpreted the teams concept to be teams of two with the players playing simultaneously, which was also a gimmick that Alex and the staff wound up disliking (from the family Jeopardy! that evolved into the first Back to School Week by dropping the parent half of the teams).
It was thought to be that when announced three years ago. Here's ATQ panning it at the time; you might enjoy the first few comments on this one.

I hadn't known that Back to School Week came from a proposed family Jeopardy!. It reminds me that when Kate Lazo returned during Clubs and mentioned that both she and her mother were champions, Lilly said "Somebody brainstorm a format for 2-person teams." I mentioned the junked JNCC concept; she seemed unmoved.
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